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BitHed
09-08-2005, 03:29 AM
...I know basically what is needed to change the buggy to the ST...Just need some comments to make sure i have everything covered...Of course if KYOSHO does one anyway then this thread will be moot but never mind...

...this is what i am guessing...I'm just thinking out loud here...

...Body...
...Front arms; upper and lower...
...Rear arms; lower...
...Front and rear diffs...
...Center diff if its changed...bundled with option greases?
...Front / rear drive shafts...Center shafts should be the same...
...Stub axles...
...Wheel set...
...Shock shafts and / or shocks if they are different sized...
...Front / rear shock towers...

...What have i missed?

mOOsE
09-08-2005, 07:20 AM
turnbuckles...
can't wait for these to come together...I think you will do great with them

BitHed
09-08-2005, 07:28 AM
...turnbuckles...check ;)

...yeah i am really looking forward to the ST...even more so than the buggy personally...and it will be achallenge gettin these conversion sets done...We are moving ahead with the anyway...I may be adding some other little BitHed touches which no one might have thought of...The theme i am going for is 'BombProof' :cool:

paulangelo
09-08-2005, 01:58 PM
cool. I prefer ST over buggy also. Have a Schumacher ST and would love to convert my H8 to it's little brother. any guesstimate on the cost of one of the conversion sets?

Hawk
09-08-2005, 05:00 PM
My list:


lower ft arm
upper arm
tie rods
f/r shocks
f/r diffs complete
f/r shock towers
f/r body mounts
Body
drive - either swingshafts or dogbones
center diff complete

Center diff will have a new gear or the slipper gears will change to get different ratio Buggy:10.8 overal ST: 12.6 overal. Just changing pinion on motor will not do it, though you can get close with a 16. The issue with the gears is you need to get to the base ratio because the effect of the bigger wheels/tires is more than just the change in effective gearing due to tire circumference. The weight and therefore the inertia has a big impact on steering, braking and acceleration.

The shocks are different, looks like buggy-like fronts all around. The rears on the buggy are only different because of the shaft length. the bodies are the same. I am thinking that is what they did here. This about Kyosho shocks. The shock towers are lower to accomodate the body mounting without sticking out the top. The shocks in the rear are mounted lower than the buggy and at a more acute angle. They still can't the same overal length as the buggy.

:cool:
Bits warnings about grease diffs are well founded. To be oil sealed requires o rings at the drive outputs and a gasket at the crown gear/diff body face. they may have done this or may not. the mp7.5(1/8) readyset is shipped with grease in the diffs but can be upgraded to oil sealed easily. May be true for Mini ST also. I am also curious to see if they use four side gears (called 6gear diff) or just two.

mOOsE
09-08-2005, 07:57 PM
I thought bit already said they are using 4 gears instead of 3

Hawk
09-08-2005, 09:15 PM
I guess I didn't make myself clear about the diff gears. Yes, Bithed said it has four gears. I even posted the translated panel with this:"It equips the diff. gear of the strength preeminent 4 bevel gear installed closed casings even in load of the big tire."
I often see the diffs referred to as 6gear diffs and 4 gear diffs. the six gear diffs include the output gears while the 4 gear diffs could be only the diff side gears or 2 side gears and to output gears. 4 gear diffs are ambiguous in this situation. Kyosho ships them both ways and since it doesn't say 6 gear diffs, I was pointing out the possibility that it may have to be upgraded.
If anyone has a problem with the idea that 2 side gears could handle the output and the big wheels and tires, Kyosho ships an Inferno (in translated Japanese 'Inferring No' lol) MP7.5 readyset 1/8 buggy with a .21 engine that includes 4 gear diffs. (not 6 gear diffs.). On the competition versions, they put the full, hardend, six gear diffs. :cool:

rcguy
09-08-2005, 10:50 PM
Sounds like this is gonna be pretty sweet... cant wait to see one... :)

BitHed
09-12-2005, 01:17 AM
..HAWK once again you posted some great stuff there...I have to read and RE-read it to follow things sometimes but its great hearing your spiel each time...

...From what i BELIEVE the four bevel front rear diff will look the same as the buggy diffs only with 4 bevels instead of 3...

...You think we can change our REAR shox to FRONT shox by just replacing that shaft? BTW I checked this the other day before you posted but the shock casings on the option oil shox ARE longer rear and shorter front...Should i be thinking about making them all long or all rear?

...SideNote: I recently found the THREADED option shock bodies too :D

(*_*)v

Hawk
09-12-2005, 04:20 AM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Hawk69/ST%20pics/05.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Hawk69/ST%20pics/06.jpg

The pic that you can see the blue shock caps is from the ST. from the pic you can see that the rear shock is mounted much lower than the buggy version. The shock bodies are the same size. To allow this configuration to work you would have to use a shorter shock shaft and angle the mounting point at the bottom as they have done. The longer arms allow them to get room needed to mount the shocks farther out toward the wheels.

I have several different size Kyosho shocks from various cars through out their history. The design remains the same, diameters are the same but the lentght of the bodies and shafts along with the body material has changed. I even tried different shock top caps of different colors.
People in another thread are already pointing out that the body sits very high and has a long cover overhang. They are calling it the fat belly. This is due to the buggy origins, and the body not having reliefs to allow the shock towers to be exposed or housed higher inside the body. The 1/8 truggyies all have dealt with this issue one way or another, either making the shocks shorter and losing travel or making funny looking bulges in the stadium truck bodies to allow the body to sit lower on the chassis.
Most of the 1/8 truggy pilots have slammed their ST bodies by hacking them up for relief. Better aero is chosen over eye appeal. Kind of like buggy's. By the way, when did you last see a 1/1 buggy that looked any thing like a MP777 or MBX5?

As to the count of the gears inside the diff, I think that will depend on if they are plastic or metal. They couldn't get away with out a 6 gear diff if it is plastic but could lose two of them if the gears are metal.

Sorry for the miscommunications, I feel like the guys I listen to on the radio, he says his mind is layed out like a ransom note.
Some times I just ramble on to get that stuff out of my head.
:cool:

BitHed
09-12-2005, 04:33 AM
...so BASICALLY there are FRONT shafts in those REAR shocks? :confused:

Hawk
09-12-2005, 04:36 AM
...so BASICALLY there are FRONT shafts in those REAR shocks? :confused:
The difference between the f and r shafts is 4mm. a smidge less that 1/4inch. So yes, that is my guess.:cool:

gulfclk
09-12-2005, 09:00 PM
Will you guys shoot me when I say I think that ST looks crap? I simply don't like it. Sorry! But I like the diff story ... show us some pics Bith ... I'm sure you have some in your secretly hidden spycamera!!!

BitHed
09-13-2005, 01:06 AM
...no worries Gulfy..its not everyones cup of tea thats for sure...The BEST pics of the diffs are the ones above this post that HAWK put up...HOPEFULLY, touch wood, some better ones will be avaialable after the show in September...

plain_simple
09-16-2005, 05:06 PM
When will we have a price for that?
I think that could be my next baby... :D

makes some sense i guess:

1/8 777 sp2
1/8 Truggy

H8 buggy
H8 ST

Eheheheheheh :cool:

EphiDelt490
09-16-2005, 06:01 PM
Hehe, I only want the diffs if they are worth a damn. Not too interested in a little truggy........yet :).

BitHed
09-16-2005, 11:58 PM
...i am maxxed out at work doing my first semester grades but i am working on a BASIC price list from the buggy stock parts...I should have a BASIC price soon...The boys are heading out to the show next week so might have a better idea after that...

bluegrooveracer
09-26-2005, 06:36 AM
heh bit any word on those st diffs?? when you track them please let us know!!

BitHed
09-27-2005, 07:11 AM
...will do buddy...as soon as they show up anywhere i will be all over them :D

mat3833
09-27-2005, 04:37 PM
so the diffs will fit in the buggy, all 3 of em? and bit how much will they be? and will you be selling them? if "yes" is the answer then i will get the sealed diffs instead of the ball diffs.

Matt

BitHed
09-28-2005, 12:30 AM
...yes yes yes...As SOON as i have a price it will be here in 10 minutes...

mat3833
09-28-2005, 01:04 AM
how easy will it be to change the oil/ grease? i dont have the H8 but it will be here in about 2 weeks. i will use the stock diffs and het a few things, then get the ST diffs and have fun!

Matt

BitHed
09-28-2005, 01:51 AM
...looks like they will just unscrew like a regular diff...I am guessing that KYOSHO will be relying on their existing greases for it and there is a WHOLE bunch of them...The greases are also ALREADY at the shop here in different forms but we still have some stocking to do of them...

mat3833
09-28-2005, 01:52 AM
ok kool, keep us posted on them!

Matt