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BitHed
05-19-2005, 01:18 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/bithed/008.jpg

...The AON 4900...Its a direct fit...I run my wires over the top to use the gap in the shell..I tried them around the side but they would hit...From the top is a mUCH better fit...

...HPI RS4 12t pinion...Lots to grab onto...There is a the TINIEST gap between the grub / set screw and the idler gear but it fits and goes round and round REALLY quickly :D

...Fits nicely into a 3Racing alloy mount...BIG gobs of room around the motor...I had to ENLARGEN the mounting holes from the front to let in a 3mm screw...Not a major hassle to make sure that there is between 3 & 4mm IN the motor...pretty easy really but just make sure to eye up your screw length BEFORE you start putting it in...Check your rotor revolves without problems...

...The 4900 runs off the MAMBA 25...Straight-forward and easy...If you can turn on a transmitter you can set up the MAMBA...The weight savings of a brushless ESC are HUGE over a brushed system...thats points FOR...

...The AON weighed in at 71 grams...Xspeed with 16 gauge wire and a Deans Ultra was 77 grams...Again points FOR...

...Running the AON on 6 cells I am getting slightly longer and more powerful runs than the Xspeed...speed is good and STILL controllable...I personally feel that I would rather be fast and on the edge than TOO fast...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/bithed/011.jpg

...its probably more driving style but I now have to left off the gas earlier to take the turns i did with a brushed...Also the extra speed effects my chassis differently which I still havent gotten used to yet...This is my first brushless system...DEFINATELY wont be my last...

TNB
05-19-2005, 03:11 AM
[CENTER][IMG]...its probably more driving style but I now have to left off the gas earlier to take the turns i did with a brushed
Do you use the brake?

BitHed
05-19-2005, 03:19 AM
...nope...Two speeds...STOP and GO REALLY FAST :D I am not coordinated enough to be able to use the brake well...It usually stops LOL...

vindictor67
05-19-2005, 03:23 AM
How you keeping her so clean bit. Thought you liked to bash!!! :D

vindictor67
05-19-2005, 03:24 AM
And I thought you glued your slipper and removed your spring for weight? :confused:

BitHed
05-19-2005, 03:25 AM
...it rained last sunday...and then it stopped...My son took me outside and we played in the mud...my H8 WAS dirty, and grainy, and squeaky and pooy and crappy...But she wanted to clean up for her piccies :D I am breaking it down and redoing everything wgain...Thats the fun of it isnt it? :o

BitHed
05-19-2005, 03:30 AM
...that slipper is NOT glued but non-functional...in the smaller gear is two plastic bushings from a Mini Z, wheel ones i think...The shaft is titanium...I didnt want to glue my gear to my titty shaft so blocked up the small gear with two Z bushings and put a single H8 bushing on the outside and then bolt / screwed it...I replaced the BIG bearing in the slipper unit and my whole central gear box ISNT bolted tightly shut...It rolls SO smooth its evil :D ALL bearings have be DE-gunged and lubed out the wazoo...I actually cooked the 'glued diff' when my 4900 wasnt set up against it properly...I went IN looking like Michael Jackson with an Afro and came out looking like Kojak...

...weight-wise I am actually still very light so i am not too worried anymore...The spring doesnt add too much im sure...

vindictor67
05-19-2005, 03:38 AM
LOL gotta love brushless power :eek: Told you, you would like it!!!!! :D

OneTimeCRX
05-19-2005, 08:35 AM
Actually if you want to remove weight anywhere, the two most effective places (for speed and handling) are in the suspension pieces and driveline pieces.

By removing any unnecessary unsprung weight from the suspension you improve the response time of the moving parts, and thus improve the handling. BMW, for example, is quite well known for good handling cars because of their extensive development of lightweight suspension parts.

By removing mass of the driveline parts (ie anything that spins), not only do you gain the benefits of reduced mass, but you also reduce the amount of power loss due to rotational inertia. It's like getting a double bonus. :)

When calculating the acceleration/top speed of a car, first you start with the total force that the engine can provide. Then you subtract from it various "drag" forces. These include vehicle mass, aerodynamic drag, rolling resistance of the tyres, frictional drag of moving parts, and finally the rotational mass of the driveline. If you can reduce the size of any of these drag forces, you'll get a faster car (assuming that you haven't met the limits of tyre traction). Therefore by reducing the rotational mass of the driveline you reduce the drag forces caused by vehicle mass AND rotational mass.

So removing the weight of the spring in the slipper will have more of an effect than you first think.

Of course, the point is to remove weight without disturbing the car's balance or durability.

BitHed
05-19-2005, 11:59 AM
...Thanx OneTime..Now you know I am a big fan of your work / posts...I have learnt ALOT from some of yur posts...A big shout out to you and Im gald you are on our pages...Anything you ever need from my end of the world just let me know...

...NOW...you know this platorm...And I have read and understand your above post...Give me some homework teach ;) Im a teacher too BTW...but never mind...Keeping in mind your previous posts what 'actions' should be taken to carry out your 'recommendations' ? I have already put titty screws everywhere they will fit...Take the slippper spring out again? We have already been out twice this week so i am running out of ideas for interesting dates...Dinner and a movie just doesnt cut it anymore...

...OneTime get me a list of things to do mate :cool:

Mini-Devil
05-19-2005, 11:02 PM
Is the AON 4900 available to the general public? If yes, where and at what price?

Thanks!

vindictor67
05-20-2005, 12:38 AM
Good question. I can't find the AON web site. Help Please :p

rstnboy
05-20-2005, 02:19 AM
Here's a couple of places: http://www.helihobby.com/html/helicopter_electric_motors.html
http://www.gwsexpert.com/index.php?cPath=62_63

I am sure there are others

OneTimeCRX
05-20-2005, 08:55 AM
Thanks for the kind words, Bit. :)

I'll mention again that I'm no expert in the RC scale of things, so take everything fwiw.

Basically, I suggest you remove as much weight as possible from anything that spins, WITHOUT risking breaking something. In the slipper assembly for example, you could remove one of the bushings in the idler gear (since it has two and only needs one). You can also remove the spring and two washers that surround the spring. However in its place you'll have to put in a lightweight spacer (I used a plastic one) since the shaft isn't completely threaded. Finally, exchanging the stock shaft for a titanium one will also help.

As far as reducing weight in the suspension is concerned, I haven't been able to figure anything out on that yet. It seems like the suspension arms take quite a beating, and I'm currently running some FEA simulations to see if there's any weight that can be safely taken off them.

OneTimeCRX
05-20-2005, 11:09 AM
Oh and I forgot to mention a good example of how lightening the rotational mass of a driveline can bring more speed: think about all the people who buy lightened flywheels for their nitro RC's (or full-size cars for that matter).

vindictor67
05-20-2005, 03:34 PM
Here's a couple of places: http://www.helihobby.com/html/helicopter_electric_motors.html
http://www.gwsexpert.com/index.php?cPath=62_63

I am sure there are others
anyone know if these are the same AON motors that are out for testing in the H8?

rstnboy
05-20-2005, 04:15 PM
It's the T2415-4900 Thrust series motor on those pages which is the same one sent to me for testing.

halfEIGHT
05-20-2005, 04:25 PM
Is the AON 4900 available to the general public? If yes, where and at what price?

Thanks!

We'll be stocking them shortly! ;)

JonteJsson
05-23-2005, 04:30 PM
Were to find those AON motors?
I've searched alot but I have not managed to find any car-motor

vindictor67
05-23-2005, 05:28 PM
Look a couple of posts up. Helihobby has it.

theturd
05-23-2005, 08:02 PM
www.aonelectric.com is now up.

Peace,
Steven Chao,
AON Electric

BitHed
05-23-2005, 08:20 PM
...Congratulations Steve :D The 4900 looks like a hit...and I heard you had some success at the show too...The site looks great...Any NEW ideas in the works? ;)

Trax
05-23-2005, 08:39 PM
Nice setup Steve, looks like you have some great products there. Do you have any overall specs on the killer series size, weight..... Do you think they are approriate for the mini inferno or are they 1/10th size motors? Glad to see another BL manufacturer enter the fray, the more options the better :)

BitHed
05-23-2005, 09:04 PM
...I THINK the 24 in the 2415 part number is 24mm...any longer than that and its not going to be a drop-in...

...I am SERIOUSLY thinking about getting a 1:10 buggy JUST so i can run an AON BL in it..That would be SO much fun...especially around here where BLin cars isnt so popular yet...

rstnboy
05-23-2005, 10:40 PM
I believe the 24 refers to the diameter of the motor...I just measured it and it was 24mm in diameter. The length of the AON 4900 is just slightly over 33 mm as measured with a caliper. The Mamba motor is the same length but 20 mm in diameter.

I emailed Steven Chao requesting the dimensions of the T2815-5800 and will post them here when he replies if he doesn't post them here himself. If the sizing works out, it could be a real monster in the Half8! It might be too much for the track but it should be ballistic on speed runs with some tall gearing (provided the drivetrain holds up).

rstnboy
05-24-2005, 07:23 PM
I got an email back already from Steven Chao...I wish all companies responded that quickly! Anyway, the T2815-5800 is 28 mm in diameter and 35 mm long. The shaft size is 3.2 mm (1/8 inch) and the max amp draw is 40 amps. The dimensions should allow it to fit but Steven said it is overkill for the Half8.

theturd
05-24-2005, 07:29 PM
AON numbering system (for our slotless design brushless motors)

Example: 2415-4900
24 = 24mm OD (Outer Diameter) of the motor, does not included Heatsink (if avail)
15 = 15mm stack or magnet length of the motor (not outer length)
49 = 4900 KV or RPM Per Volt (no load)
0 = No Gearing System
0 = Standard Shaft System (speed 300/370 motors uses 2.0mm)

Example: 2815-3002
28 = 28mm OD (Outer Diameter) of the motor, does not included Heatsink (if avail)
15 = 15mm stack or magnet length of the motor (not outer length)
30 = 3000 KV or RPM Per Volt (no load)
0 = No Gearing System
2 = Non-standard Shaft System: 2.3mm (speed 480 motors uses 1/8in or 3.17mm)


Note1: rpm is generally inversely related to torque with the load being the variable.
Note2: number system varies from one company to another, do not that assume they are the same.

Hope above explaination helps :)

Peace,
Steven Chao,
AON Electric

vindictor67
05-24-2005, 07:39 PM
I got an email back already from Steven Chao...I wish all companies responded that quickly! Anyway, the T2815-5800 is 28 mm in diameter and 35 mm long. The shaft size is 3.2 mm (1/8 inch) and the max amp draw is 40 amps. The dimensions should allow it to fit but Steven said it is overkill for the Half8.

Overkill is GOOOD!!! :D

BitHed
05-24-2005, 08:40 PM
...sounds interesting :D So who is going to try it Vindictor? Dont you think that would be wonderful Vindictor? That motor in your H8 would make YOUR H8 reallly fast Vindictor :p

mOOsE
05-24-2005, 09:25 PM
no pressure vindictor haha

BitHed
05-24-2005, 09:49 PM
...Moose we are playing tag again ;) Oh and gee whiz...would ya look at that...35mm long WILL fit, but i think the wires will need to be mounted off the side and not the top...might be ok though....Gee Vindictor isnt taht goood news...The 5800 will fit right in and you wont have to do much work at all ;) Lucky you...lol...

vindictor67
05-25-2005, 12:44 AM
...sounds interesting :D So who is going to try it Vindictor? Dont you think that would be wonderful Vindictor? That motor in your H8 would make YOUR H8 reallly fast Vindictor :p

Hello Mr. Chao, I missed out on testing the 4900. I have a perfect test bed H8 just asking to be abused. How about working with me on priceing and I will be your test slave for the 5800. Just e-mail me if interested..... ;)

BitHed
05-25-2005, 12:48 AM
...Vindictor I will start running up your parts bill buddy :D

vindictor67
05-25-2005, 12:58 AM
...Vindictor I will start running up your parts bill buddy :D


You the man Bit, I need Fully hardened Stainless Steel CAW Chassis, Knuckles, towers, gears, etc. Going to be hard to fit a 1/4 scale steering servo to turn the heavy beast but with that much power who cares :D

Trax
05-25-2005, 03:51 AM
...got it, thanks steve. should make browsing the motors a bit easier.

akura2
05-27-2005, 04:50 AM
hey Steve... I met you Sunday at the show.... I'm the one who knows ALex and Paul who own the Kyosho motorcycles (they bought those bikes because they saw mine...LOL)... 5'11" black guy carrying two cameras...LOL... I know Jaime at the Hobby Place too... just wanted to say... I love what you are doing with your motors...and I think I'll be partaking in the world of the AON motor... I already have two Mambas... but I can swap out the motor for one of yours and drop it in my H8...

I'm digging how that 4900 drops right in

BitHed
05-27-2005, 05:00 AM
...Akura I am pretty sure it will bring a smile to your face :D

TNB
05-27-2005, 05:41 AM
akura2,
I must have missed you at RCX. I would have either been taking photos, gutting out a brand new Kyosho Mini-Inferno near the AON booth, or carrying around a topless Kyosho Mini-Inferno somewhere betten the following booths: Nomadio, Castle Creations, Dremel or AON. I also stayed late on Sunday to help tear down and load the RCP Tracks used at the Kyosho and Iwaver booths.

Basically, I purchased a new Kyosho Mini-Inferno for one gear, had the Dremel people cut a notch to fit the Nomadio transceiver, and then work with both the staff at Nomadio and Castle Creations in an attempt to get the Nomadio Sensor to work with the Mamba-25 brushless speed control. (I also installed some Boca Bearings in place of the stock center diff bushings.) The bottom line is that I didn't get to run the Kyosho Mini-Inferno because of a hardware conflict. The good thing is that the think tank between Nomadio and Castle Creations figured out the hardware problem and have since fixed it.

Today, I received a replacement receiver from Nomadio, a replacement motor from Castle Creations (the AON is still in my original Kyosho Mini-Inferno), and took the AON powered Kyosho Mini-Inferno out for a spin using the Nomadio Sensor. :D Better late than never.

akura2
05-27-2005, 05:45 AM
akura2,
I must have missed you at RCX. I would have either been taking photos, gutting out a brand new Kyosho Mini-Inferno near the AON booth, or carrying around a topless Kyosho Mini-Inferno somewhere betten the following booths: Nomadio, Castle Creations, Dremel or AON. I also stayed late on Sunday to help tear down and load the RCP Tracks used at the Kyosho and Iwaver booths..

I was there until about 5:15... and at that time I was over at iWaver and Kyosho... I was watching everybody tear stuff down...sorry I missed ya.. I know John (RCP) and I was talking to Brian Norris (Kyosho) and I was wearing a yellow shirt.... oh well....next time

TNB
05-27-2005, 05:50 AM
I was watching everybody tear stuff down...I was wearing a yellow shirt....
I think we finally finished up around 9PM. Yellow shirt--reminds me of Alex at Iwaver. ;)

bboots583
05-27-2005, 01:17 PM
Does the AON "cog" at all? I am using a Mamba 6800, 11th pinion, 8 gp1100 or 6 gp2000 with deans and I get a small but annoying amount of cogging from a stop immediately after appyling a high load. Does the AON 4900 do this at all, ever?

BitHed
05-27-2005, 02:31 PM
...mine doesnt...ever :D well it does right at the end of a battery...its like an ealy warning system that I am just about out of juice...BTW boots welcome to the boards...

coryj
05-27-2005, 10:59 PM
so will the 5800 run with the mamba 25

akura2
05-29-2005, 05:09 PM
Just got the 4900 installed with a 13T HPI pinion... so we'll see how it runs now... still waiting for shocks and bearings... I think I might run over to Ultimate Hobbies and grab the Kyosho shocks... I can't wait any longer for my 3Racing shocks to come from Hong Kong

.5x8
05-29-2005, 06:41 PM
=] im waiting for one18th to resupply their 3racing shocks...yummm gun metal aluminum...muahahha i might pick up some shock towers from them too...probably alum. but eh..i can wait for taht..or i can choose carbon fibre! one18th.com shop has the 3racing shocks for like 20 bucks..so yeh..

.5x8
05-29-2005, 06:41 PM
by the way.....any one know where i can get a mamba 25 esc and a aon 4900 brushless motor for a good price?!?!?!?

BitHed
05-30-2005, 04:33 AM
...Akura...good luck..make sure everything is meshed quite tight and if anything is loose, gear box etc, tighten it to maintain fit...if stuff gets loose it eats itself...

.5x8
06-03-2005, 03:57 AM
does ANYONE know the SPEED in MPH of this thing? bithed? if its kin kmh i can estimate =] lol

vindictor67
06-03-2005, 04:13 AM
Speed of what thing? :mad: Are you just asking questions to be asking and racking up Post Miles or are you serious? :confused:

MOTRAIN
06-03-2005, 04:55 AM
Why does everyone go with the Mamba ESC instead of the AON ESC Pheonix 25 I think? Is the mamba 25 that much better?

Also is AON electric the best place to purchase this BL system? I think they have it for $139.99. Thanks!

vindictor67
06-03-2005, 05:09 AM
I'm not sure of all of the specs but I believe the Pheonix is an aircraft speed control. The idle and brake settings are different or not avalible. The Mamba 25 is Programable with the USB MAMBA Link cable, can handle 25 amps continous and nearly 100 amp bursts. AKA the best ground based ESC for BL systems avalible............. :D Aon sells them as a system on their website. That says a LOT............... :D

maxxenitout
06-03-2005, 07:08 AM
Back when the brushless mini-t was ooohing and aaahing everyone and Troy from Bishop Power Products posted the vid on their site I ordered the Pheonix/Lehner Combo and a 3 cell lipo and had no issues with it at all. It had a program mode that was very similiar to the mamba 25's. So it may be possible to adjust all the settings. Just came back from Hobby People and noticed they have both the Mamba 25 and the Pheonix for $74.99.

P.S. My mini-t was giving 10th drag cars nightmares... :D

theturd
06-03-2005, 07:49 AM
There is a difference between purchasing a Pheonix-25 and a Mamba-25. Mamba-25 has car/boat features that aircraft/Heli does not. If you are ordering through AON Electric (www.aonelectric.com) please make certain that you pick

Killer Series Packages (cars)
T241549-Mamba T2415-4900 + Castle Creations Mamba 25 Controller $139.99 ....

The package may be simpler to deal with. If you hare looking to purchase the Mamba-25 individually, then I don't think AON has the best price. So shop around (we simply can not, because we cater to dealers also).
Horizon: $84.99
All e rc: $76.95
Castle Creations: $89.95
AON Electric: $89.95
Starluck: $77.00

Just to list a few..

Peace,
Steven Chao (with AON Electric)

MOTRAIN
06-03-2005, 01:33 PM
OK, cool thanks for the tip.

I think I am going to order a AON 4900 w/mamba 25 package. Do I need anything else in order to do this swap? Do I need a new reciever? If so will any reciever work? I have a syn. JR radio I guess I could throw in a JR310, its syn. and nice and small.

I guess while I am at it I should throw in a better servo...any nice quick drop ins you guys reccomend?

akura2
06-03-2005, 05:30 PM
Well you can't use the stock Rx once you change out the ESC... you'll need a Rx and a servo now

my suggestion (and anyone can chime in if they want) is the XXL from Novak, or the Hitec HFS-03MM 3-channel... the Hitec is smaller, three channel (you won't really need it) and cheaper ($32.99 at servocity.com)...but Novak is Novak...just good quality stuff... and small w/o breaking the bank...

for the servo.. there are a bunch of choices.. but I like the Hitec HS81MG...fast, strong, Metal gear, small, and inexpensive...or the 85MG if you want a slightly beefier servo... I have an 85 in mine...and it's great... (wanted to use an 81 but the one I had didn't have "ears" on it anymore... but the 85 out of my M18 did and either drop right in)

Hawk
06-03-2005, 06:13 PM
I started out with the JR XS Pro synthesized system like you suggest. RS310 is smaller than the rs300 and the system has a high frame rate. I then chose a Futaba 9650 mini-digital servo (arm and bracket included with Half8) since the JR has high rate for digital.
Since then I have decided to just keep it to one controller and that would be the 3PK futaba. I have HRS receivers for the digital servo and this shoud be fine. I don't like that the bec's only put out 5volts as the servos are stonger and faster at 6v. The servo works great but it is not as cheap as the hitec's.
The R203HF is small and rugged, it is the only one that has worked consistantly in my MP777 race buggy. They are bullet proof.
Also, at RCX I bought a Sky & Technology special for $94. It is a Hacker E30-13L (4200Kv) and a Quark 22A universal Brushless ESC. It has air, air 3d, car/boat, car/boat reverse (no need to swap wires), heli1 ,2,3; Turbo mode; ABS braking; Smart BEC cut-off, 38kHz switching; high temp cut off and voltage cutoff that is programmable.
They have a a 33A (as in amps) that I might try later.

akura2
06-03-2005, 07:01 PM
he can use his 310 w/o a problem... I was trying to go for the "best bang for the buck" solution:D... of course digital is always better... but in these little cars... if you don't already have all those pieces and parts, digital money is best spent on 1/10 scale and larger... if you are starting from scratch, there isn't much that can beat the packages I mentioned for price and perfomance....you can always move up from there depending on your wallet and personal preferences :)

TNB
06-03-2005, 09:14 PM
I think I am going to order a AON 4900 w/mamba 25 package. Do I need anything else in order to do this swap? Do I need a new reciever? If so will any reciever work? I have a syn. JR radio I guess I could throw in a JR310, its syn. and nice and small.

I guess while I am at it I should throw in a better servo...any nice quick drop ins you guys reccomend?
I was using the RS300 in one of my Mini-Infernos until I replaced it with a Nomadio transceiver. The RS300 worked fine and so does my Nomadio transceiver unit now since they modified and replaced the unit. Regarding the servo, you will probably have no choice other than to replace it since the stock Mini-Inferno has a four wire servo with the integrated Receiver/ESC unit. The servo I used is probably over kill, but it is a HiTec HS-5125MG servo (a digital programmable metal-geared airplane servo).

milknbutter
06-07-2005, 12:05 AM
Where is a good and cheap place to purchase the AON brushless motor? I was thinking of an online shop that posts international.

Thanks,
MnB

BitHed
06-07-2005, 12:10 AM
...milknbutter you cant get it from AON direct? they sent me mine and I am in Japan...

milknbutter
06-07-2005, 10:51 PM
I thought official sites have max RRP prices, anyway, I will purchase it from the official site.

Cheers,
MnB.

akura2
06-08-2005, 12:13 AM
I thought official sites have max RRP prices, anyway, I will purchase it from the official site.

Cheers,
MnB.

a lot of times large companies list MSRP and not street price (Kyosho, HPI, Tamiya)... but usually they aren't selling the stuff there and it's just as an introduction to new parts.... if they are selling their products from their site (AON, Castle Creations, PTIRacing...usually the smaller companies) then the prices are usually close to street price

MOTRAIN
06-08-2005, 06:02 AM
Ordered my set-up tonight... AON 4900 with Mamba 25 can't wait thanks for all your help guys!

milknbutter
06-08-2005, 11:20 PM
Hey Bit

Just 2 questions.

1. Is the AON motor 400 size?

2. What pinion are you using and what would be better as by now you would have had some exp with this setup. I run 8 cell GP 1100's.

Cheers,
MnB

BitHed
06-08-2005, 11:58 PM
...all good questions :o The model number is #T2415-4900...the 4900 is the kv...I cant remember what the 415 is...Steven Chow talks about somewhere in here...I will try to dig it out...BTW the can is 24mm round...

...Pinions i can do for ya ) 2mm shaft...apparently pinions done for the RC18T work best...I have an HPI RS4 12t pinion on and it fits perfect with zero issues...Some of the MAMBA users have been 'told / advised' to not go over an 11t pinion...TornACL and Vindictor know more about that than I do...Some of Crunch's buddies in Hong Kong were using a 9t with a 400 brushed something but i cant figure out how they got the motor mount that close in...Be aware that MANY of the Hong Kong courses are MUCH tighter than any thing you might have in the big open spaces of North America or Australia...

...heat is a NON-ISSUE with 6 cells and a 12t...If you were 8 cells i think you could stay cool, calm and collected up to a 16 no worries...Dunno...Try it and see...

...Milky mate just MAKE SURE your MOTOR and your SLIPPER have a sweet and sexy mesh...Even just a little off and your slipper will get eaten...This is not ONLY the AON though, it just happens faster :)

Hawk
06-09-2005, 07:06 PM
...all good questions :o The model number is #T2415-4900...the 4900 is the kv...I cant remember what the 415 is...Steven Chow talks about somewhere in here...I will try to dig it out...BTW the can is 24mm round... :)

From earlier in this thread:
Example: 2415-4900
24 = 24mm OD (Outer Diameter) of the motor, does not included Heatsink (if avail)
15 = 15mm stack or magnet length of the motor (not outer length)
49 = 4900 KV or RPM Per Volt (no load)
0 = No Gearing System
0 = Standard Shaft System (speed 300/370 motors uses 2.0mm)

:cool:

masterbasser
07-06-2005, 03:31 PM
hey does anyone know how much shipping would be from aon electric?

TamiyaBF
07-07-2005, 01:06 AM
I ordered a setup last night and it was 6.95$ for shipping.

masterbasser
07-07-2005, 01:38 AM
do you know how long shipping is supposed to take?

R32dude
07-07-2005, 08:18 AM
who makes it and what is the part # of that heatsink on the AON 4900 in the first message of this thread? I WANT ONE!!!

BitHed
07-07-2005, 11:40 AM
...dis one senor?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/bithed/040.jpg

...TOPCAD, for the MiniQukae, two units fitted side by side...they might be in the shop here if you ask nicely ;)

R32dude
07-07-2005, 08:11 PM
TOPCAD huh? I wonder if my local hobby shop can get them through Great Planes or Horizon hobby?

R32dude
07-07-2005, 08:13 PM
i cant find any heatsinks in the shop on this sight?
They dont even list topcad as a manufactuer!

TamiyaBF
07-08-2005, 02:16 AM
Definatly wont find them via Great Planes distro.

If you drop me a line I can point you to some topcad dealers.

Balzmahony@aol.com

TamiyaBF
07-08-2005, 02:19 AM
Hey BitHed , did you happen to get my email via ebay ?

mOOsE
07-08-2005, 02:34 AM
rcmart.com has them and ebay too. search for anderson heatsink, mrx4 heatsink, or mini quake heatsink. But check here first just incase.

R32dude
07-09-2005, 12:41 AM
thanks yall!! lol

R32dude
07-09-2005, 12:42 AM
i just realized-I'm not a newbie anymore!!! yeaaahhhh!

mOOsE
07-09-2005, 01:22 AM
way to go. Keep working on those posts then when you hit senior, you can get discounts on coffee at Mc'D's

holy_inferno
07-10-2005, 02:29 AM
i just realized-I'm not a newbie anymore!!! yeaaahhhh!
The title under the name, holy_inferno is false, I am so newbie and will stay that way for a long time as this is my first Radio Control car :D

R32dude
07-10-2005, 04:36 AM
Does anyone know if AON has 4900's in stock? for I ordered mine last weekend and am so anxious I am praying its not on backorder!! :confused:

halfEIGHT
07-10-2005, 02:57 PM
i cant find any heatsinks in the shop on this sight?
They dont even list topcad as a manufactuer!

I'll get 'em in - silver, blue, both? Any MQ Owners out there interested in any other parts while we're ordering? :)

TNB
07-10-2005, 05:54 PM
Atomic alloy spur gears.

R32dude
07-12-2005, 03:43 PM
I'm still waiting on my 4900 but as this will be my first experience owning a brushless motor i'm wondering if there is a neccesary break in you guys suggest? Thanks guys! :)

acsubie
07-12-2005, 04:40 PM
I'm still waiting on my 4900 but as this will be my first experience owning a brushless motor i'm wondering if there is a neccesary break in you guys suggest? Thanks guys! :)


no break in needed for BLs, just run the sucker and an occasional lube would be enough

hkopium
07-26-2005, 11:00 AM
I got an email back already from Steven Chao...I wish all companies responded that quickly! Anyway, the T2815-5800 is 28 mm in diameter and 35 mm long. The shaft size is 3.2 mm (1/8 inch) and the max amp draw is 40 amps. The dimensions should allow it to fit but Steven said it is overkill for the Half8.

So, what kind of Pinion should I use with in a Mini Inferno with this motor?

R32dude
07-29-2005, 06:53 PM
I just got e-mail confirmation. My 4900 is in the mail!!!! :) :)

So stoked!!!

Smoothound
07-29-2005, 07:24 PM
Bloody things are non existant in the UK :mad: :eek:

mOOsE
07-29-2005, 08:15 PM
Tried my 4900 today. I was puzzled as to why everyone is running smaller than stock pinion gears. I tested mine today with an 8cell matched gp1100 pack and 17tooth pinion. it was FAST. I am talking 3 cell comp x type speed in a mini-t. but the motor was probably getting around 160-170 without a body so I am guessing a 13t-15t would be good depending on the surface you are running on. I guess thats why everyone runs the 13t pinion. I give AON an A+

WhoMe
07-29-2005, 09:58 PM
You dont really want that motor to get much hotter than 150 degrees. Thats the point at which the magnets start to lose thier buzz.

mOOsE
07-29-2005, 10:22 PM
150 isn't too bad. but brushless motors need to stay cooler because the armature/magnet can get to hot and slip out of the can. But that usually takes about 200+ degrees.

theturd
07-29-2005, 10:59 PM
Let's label our temp measurements with C or F. The magnet will handle up to 138 C, but I would not recommend testing (please take my word for it). That means 38 degrees C above water's boiling pt.

Personally, I would recommend keepinig the motor under 110 degrees C, because of fear of runaway thermal (an interesting phenom). There is always a "spit test." That means when the water vapor hit the motor, it will hiss. An indication of 80+ degree C.... not good to touch:-D, but perfectly fine for motor and magnet.

Note: It is always good to keep the motor as cool as possible, so heatsinks are good ideas.

Peace,
Steven Chao,
AON Electric

WhoMe
07-29-2005, 11:10 PM
Thanks for the info Steven.

theturd
07-29-2005, 11:15 PM
Clarification of "150": At 150 degrees Celsius (not Fahrenheit)... the magnet will demagnetize. So "Who" is absolutely right, as long as everyone is thinking as the Celsius.

Examples (C <=> F conversions, http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm);
150 degree Celsius = 302 degree Fahrenheit
138 degree Celsius = 280.4 degree Fahrenheit
100 degree Celsius = 212 degree Fahrenheit
80 degree Celsius = 176 degree Fahrenheit
66 degree Celsius = 150.8 degree Fahrenheit
43 degree Celsius = 109.4 degree Fahrenheit (Las Vegas)

Peace,
Steve Chao,
AON Electric.com

mOOsE
07-30-2005, 12:15 AM
whoa, no way. I meant in F. If it was that hot in C, you could see through the can lol.

mOOsE
07-30-2005, 12:16 AM
so steve, you say your motors are ok at around 160 F?

Smoothound
07-30-2005, 09:15 AM
My Mamba regularly hits 180 and so far I've found no ill effects

Smoothound
07-30-2005, 11:06 AM
Steve,

I hear Robbe in the UK are handling Aon motors etc. I ordered a 4900 a while ago via my LHS but they keep telling me it's not arrived yet. Could you clarify their position regarding how long before they will have them or should I just order one from you?

mOOsE
07-30-2005, 02:53 PM
just order it from him man. you will get it faster direct from the company, probably the same price too

theturd
07-30-2005, 06:35 PM
It is more likely that UK shoppers will see AON stuff in their local hobby shops around Mid/Late August. This is due to simple logistics. In fact it is more of our fault than Robbe - Distributor.

Hope this answers your question.


Peace,
Steven Chao,
AON Electric

Smoothound
07-30-2005, 06:44 PM
So if I ordered one direct from you how soon(ball park figure I won't hold you to it :D )would it ship from you?

theturd
07-30-2005, 06:51 PM
If you already placed an order at your local hobby shop, I would highly recommend you go through them. There is still a tremendous loyalty I have to local shops that are willing to provide quality service to you. Taking business away from local Mom & Pop stores is simply not right.

My direct email: schao@aonelectric.com

Let me know which store, and I'll work with Robbe-UK to get an AON T2415-4900 there for you. You obviously will have to give me your email, so that I can update you. If it works, then Robbe-UK (Keith W.) will also deserve much props.

Peace,
Steven Chao,
AON Electric

R32dude
07-31-2005, 01:39 AM
I got mine today and am istalling as I speak :)

R32dude
07-31-2005, 03:43 AM
4900 is ballistic!!! i'm using a 13t pinion and it friken flies! Amped and pumped!!! :D :D

mOOsE
07-31-2005, 05:56 AM
I very happy with mine as well. Still gets a little hot with 8 cells, about 180 running very hard with no venting in the body. But I am also running a 15tooth pinion. by the way, robinson makes a whole line of micro pinions now that fit awsome and they have up to an 18tooth for you speed freaks out there.

Smoothound
07-31-2005, 09:36 AM
Let me know which store, and I'll work with Robbe-UK to get an AON T2415-4900 there for you. You obviously will have to give me your email, so that I can update you. If it works, then Robbe-UK (Keith W.) will also deserve much props.



Thanks Steve you should get a mail soon.

RAE
08-02-2005, 09:33 PM
what extra things I need to install this motor?
1- Do I need a diferent Speed control?
2- Diferent Radio Transmiter / receiver?
3- Gear?
4- Adjustments?
5- Other...

Since I'm new on this RC field, I'm full of questions, and I want to "INVEST" no waist few bucks in my H8.
tks

holy_inferno
08-02-2005, 09:43 PM
If you're new to RC in general, you're just like me!
Aon 4900, you'll need a sensorless brushless ESc like the Mamba-25 (http://halfeight.com/shop/product.php?productid=16281&cat=0&page=1&featured)...If you don't want to buy a different radio, you'll have to buy a new receiver, like the Novak XXL (http://halfeight.com/shop/product.php?productid=16233&cat=0&page=1), but if you're "Investing," buy a decent FM radio system...You'll need a new servo, like the Hitec HS81/85 MG (http://halfeight.com/shop/product.php?productid=16220&cat=0&page=1), and good battery packs like one available from UnitedRC (http://unitedrc.com)...Don't forget ball bearings and oil shocks! :)
Adjustments.. ask other forum mambers about that

Glitch
08-03-2005, 12:00 AM
Anybody having sputtering issues during accelleration? I have the 4900/mamba25 combo from AON. I completed the setup as per the manual.
I'm running a 14 pinion from Robinson the 8cell pack from Kyosho. It only sputters during accelleration. Once it gets going, it runs fine. If I stop suddenly and try to accellerate quickly, it sputters and sometimes, it will not move foward at all. It also gets hot very quickly. Is this normal? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

.5x8
08-03-2005, 01:05 AM
does it run fine in an distance? if so, then its not the reciever....what battery packs are u using? you also might consider getting a lower toothed pinion

Glitch
08-09-2005, 04:21 AM
5x8,

I'll try a 12 on 13 pinion. I'll post my findings. Here are some pics of my Half8. The paint was courtesy of Paint By R2. Enjoy! :)

maxxenitout
08-09-2005, 06:03 AM
Looks good, I am also having a body painted by R2. I should hopefully have it tomorrow(if I can sneak away from work to pick it up @ southland hobbies) If not I have to wait till Thursday...

theturd
08-09-2005, 09:13 AM
Sputtering/Cogging/Hesitation may come from 3 different areas;

1. Most common: not enough power is following through your setup. The common culprits are: (1) power supply has too high of internal resistance (2) wires have too high of internal resistance (3) the connection have too much resistance.

2. Gearing: the pinion gear is not low enough. One can always increase speed by increasing Voltage when using brushless motors. This is one trick that brush motor can never have. So use it to your advantage. Of course I am not avocating stupid speed and/or power.

3. Update: update the Mamba-25 firmware. Castle Creations is a company that stands behind their product. I am certain that they provide the free downloads for everyone. So take advantage of their support. It is there for you guys.

Hope this helps.


Peace,
Steven Chao,
AON Electric

Glitch
08-10-2005, 04:49 AM
Turd,

Thanks for the support and speedy delivery. I'll try a smaller pinion and possibly splurge on some lipo power. $50-$70 range for lipos, damn!!!

Maxxenitout,

Can't wait to see your R2 paint! His work is always exceptional and his prices can't be beat! Anyway, I'm heading out to SoCal Wednesday night for the first time. I usually race nitro sedan but, I'm trying to get into electric
little by little. Hope to see some other Half8s tommorrow.

Late

MOTRAIN
08-10-2005, 05:45 AM
Glitch,

I am experiencing the exact same problems you are!?!?!? Its driving me crazy...I am running United RC 8 cell packs with dean plugs, set everything up to the book and it still is very jerky and sometime non-reponsive at all.

I have a 13 tooth Robinson gear on it and a JR RS310 reciever. I am totally ready to smash everything.... Castle said that they would look at the ESC for me but they doubted that was the problem.

Any help would be great!

WhoMe
08-10-2005, 10:26 AM
I ran both six and eight cells with my AON Mamba combo and I do not get stuttering problems. However when I ran an AM radio setup in my car I did. Be sure to keep the Mamba away from your receiver.

Glitch
08-11-2005, 05:35 AM
Maxxenitout,

I saw a pic of your Crowd Pleaser. Man, I'm jealous! I dig the carbon fiber effects. Please post a pic of it, unless you want me to :D R2 is a close friend so I see most of the bodies before the customers do.
Anyway, I went to SoCal tonight, only to find out that they were racing off road. I need to break in the 8 before I even think about racing. I will try to feel sick, I mean, get off work early tommorrow so I can get some practice. ;)

milknbutter
08-13-2005, 10:12 AM
What screws do you people use to mount the AON to the 3 Racing aluminium motor mount?

maxxenitout
08-13-2005, 05:49 PM
Maxxenitout,
I saw a pic of your Crowd Pleaser. Man, I'm jealous! I dig the carbon fiber effects. Please post a pic of it, unless you want me to R2 is a close friend so I see most of the bodies before the customers do.

I finally got a chance to go pick it up, I'll be busy all day today but I will cut it out tonight and hopefully post some pics of it mounted tonight or tomorrow. :)

bboots583
08-14-2005, 02:34 AM
I just went to the hardware store and bought a few screws that were the correct thread, then I cut them to the length I wanted.

My AON 4900 "cogs" also. It is really no better and sometimes even worse than my Mamba 6800 I was using. I am playing around with gearing to see if I can make it better. I am using 6 GP1100 cells, 13t pinion and the Mamba 25 controller with the newest firmware. 8 cells and a 11 or 12t should help. I have the USB link and I have played with the settings, I can make it worse but not any better :( .

WhoMe
08-14-2005, 03:02 AM
Mine did not cog on six with a 14 tooth pinion. Try eight cells..but in all honestly make sure you arent getting radio hits off of the Mamba..I had that problem and it seemed like coggin...but it stopped when the car was close to me so I moved the mamba and it went away.

Mazda787b
08-14-2005, 02:52 PM
Make sure your are using atleast 16ga wire, anything smaller will cog. Also, set start-up power to the lowest setting. The motor has more than enough power to pull you out, and doing so will reduce cogging greatly.

mOOsE
08-15-2005, 06:59 PM
I agree completely. I am using the stock wires from the AA holder and they get hot, cause cogging, and heat up the esc and motor a little bit too.

JuJuB
08-15-2005, 07:24 PM
Would the URC Xtreem 37's or the Sport 42's be better for this motor?

mOOsE
08-15-2005, 08:57 PM
the extremes because they are GP cells which provider higher amp draw

thedirt
08-16-2005, 04:06 AM
Are you guys using any type of heat sink on the AON 4900 BL motor? Also, it is a direct fit with no need of trimming or shaving any of the chassis right?

MOTRAIN
08-16-2005, 04:53 AM
So like I can not get this combo to work!!!! You guys were saying not use anything under 16 gauge wire right? Well the United RC xtreame packs come with 18 guage so should I change them out?

My mamba 25 flickers from green to yellow when on the throtle what the eff does that mean.... and every once in a while it goes balls out green only but at top speed.... totally confused and ready to sell this thing! Need help ASAP!

maxxenitout
08-16-2005, 05:53 AM
Are you guys using any type of heat sink on the AON 4900 BL motor? Also, it is a direct fit with no need of trimming or shaving any of the chassis right?


I am using the 3racing heatsink for the rc18t it fits perfect with no modification, they come in diffrent colors, they are all over e-bay and the only cost about $4.00. :) Here are some pics..
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/maxxenitout/P1010049.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/maxxenitout/3r3.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/maxxenitout/3r4.jpg

bphalf8
08-16-2005, 09:54 AM
I have a mamba 8000 in my half 8 and its pretty fast. Not that much low end torque but when it gets goin its fast. I am also interested in the AON motor. I jus wanted to know some pro's and con's of the AON motor compared to the Mamba 8000. My only complaint w/ the mamba is that it does run very hot and doesnt really give much torque.
Thanks, Chris

thedirt
08-17-2005, 04:35 AM
Im wanting to order just the AON 4900 brushless motor, but I can'r find it in their site. Can anybody post the link of the right AON 4900 motor from AON's site for me?

Thanks

maxxenitout
08-17-2005, 05:28 AM
Here you go...
http://www.aonelectric.com/eShop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=T2415-4900

thedirt
08-19-2005, 10:33 PM
So the AON 4900 motors shaft is 2.0mm? I thought it was 2.3mm, can someone clarify this for me. Im confused :confused:

mOOsE
08-20-2005, 12:20 AM
2.0...same as mamba

thedirt
08-20-2005, 04:45 AM
Thanks Moose, so what pinions you guys using on them then? and can you post a link from where you find them (perferably on towerhobbies or company site)

Thanks.

holy_inferno
08-20-2005, 06:53 AM
HPI Micro RS4 pinions, or the Robinson Racing/Associated pinions for the RC18T seem to be the most commonly used. :)

thedirt
08-22-2005, 07:22 PM
What size of pinion would you recommend for the AON 4900 Brushless?

bphalf8
08-22-2005, 10:03 PM
has anyone tried the AON 5800 yet?

thedirt
08-22-2005, 10:26 PM
I thought that motor was for 1/10 vehicles??

acidoangel
08-22-2005, 11:30 PM
Hi,
I'm also interested by the aon 5800.
But AON doesn't recommend it for the H8.

I have already mailed them:

Hi xxxxx,

K2815-5800 will require modification (there is a heatsink built onto the 28mm OD motor - 36mm OD (outer diameter)). KV=5800, we generally use it for 1/10 scale on road & off road.

T2819-4900 will not require modification (24mm OD motor). KV=4900, we recommend this for the Mini 4WD cars/buggies/trucks such as Kyosho Mini Inferno/Associated 18T & 18MT.


Customer Service,
AON Electric
Tel: (310) 470-5188, Fax: (310) 470-5288

thedirt
08-23-2005, 03:09 AM
Here you go...
http://www.aonelectric.com/eShop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=T2415-4900

Well is this motor under this link not the direct fit/ the AON 4900 motor that everyone is using?

The part number i was given earlier was T2415-4900 and the part number they gave acidoangel was T2819-4900. :confused: What is the real part number for the AON 4900 motor that is a direct fit in the H8. Im so confused :confused: :confused: Their site doesn't even show a T2819-4900 anywhere, I looked all over for it and still couldn't find it. PLease help me :( Im looking to buy just the motor!! No ESC.

acidoangel
08-23-2005, 08:03 AM
I think that the true motor is T2415-4900 and not T2819-4900.
Because AON5800 (28mm OD = T28xx-5800) is larger than AON4900 (24mm OD = T24xx-4900).

NiMo
08-23-2005, 02:30 PM
T2415-4900 is the motor

thedirt
08-23-2005, 04:29 PM
Alright, thanks.

signats
08-23-2005, 04:42 PM
What size of pinion would you recommend for the AON 4900 Brushless?

Pinion selection is situational, so it is always good to have a selection of pinions to choose from.

If you are racing in 5 min. heats, or bashing in a wide open parking lot, or chasing the cat around the celler a different pinion may be best for each application.

How many cells 6, 7, 8....10? Higher cell count = smaller pinion.

Tires are they stock or 1/10th rally car, HPI super wide or 26mm narrow? bigger (and heavier) tires = smaller pinion.

Wheel bushings or bearings? more driveline drag = smaller pinion

Track surface is it dirt, asphalt, cement, carpet, lawn, driveway, sandbox, golf course? is the surface damp, dry, dusty, loamy? more surface drag = smaller pinion.

If you are on a track, then the layout can effect pinion choice, is it tight with close jumps that have very little run-up, or perhaps it is a full on 1/8th/MT track with 150' straights. Tighter track = smaller pinion.


All of these things can and will effect the pinion choice. It is also important to keep a close watch on motor, controller, and battery temps., which can all be effected by the ambient air temp.

So you see, no one can give a definitive answer to your question without first having more information about set-up, and how, and where you intend to use your buggy.

A search of the halfeight.com forums does seem to indicate that a 13 pinion is fairly popular choice though :)

thedirt
08-23-2005, 05:09 PM
Yea, I guess I should have posted what kind of track conditions I would be running on. So here they go (got a few) Heres some general things: I will be running 8 cell 1100mAh batteries, stock tires, full bearings.

1. Hard packed clay (Good Traction), One big Jump, 50-100ft straight
2. Ozite Carpet (High Traction), Just goofing around in the back of the shop with some small homemade jumps.
3. Open praire (grass, dirt, pot holes, etc)

So maybe I should get a 11, 12, 13 and a 14?

BitHed
08-24-2005, 01:55 AM
...i only fit even numbrs :D And i cracked my 12 so i think i will have to go 14...Nice post Signats...all sorts of chewable information in there :cool:

Mazda787b
08-24-2005, 04:12 AM
The 5800 Killer series motor is 540 size ment for 1/10 Buggies, Stadium Trucks, and Touring Cars. It is reccomended that it be used in a 4wd Buggy or Touring car application, as they can best handle the power. IF you have a high-grip situation, they will be great for 2wd and even run cooler.

signats
08-24-2005, 12:13 PM
Yea, I guess I should have posted what kind of track conditions I would be running on. So here they go (got a few) Heres some general things: I will be running 8 cell 1100mAh batteries, stock tires, full bearings.

1. Hard packed clay (Good Traction), One big Jump, 50-100ft straight
2. Ozite Carpet (High Traction), Just goofing around in the back of the shop with some small homemade jumps.
3. Open praire (grass, dirt, pot holes, etc)

So maybe I should get a 11, 12, 13 and a 14?

You will have the bases covered for everything except "insane" speed runs, and rock crawling with that selection of pinions. :)

One major area neglected in my above post about pinion selection is that Battery type and the charge and dis-charge regiment used can make a big enough difference in battery power output as to influence final pinion choice.

An 8 cell pack of gp1100s will behave differently than a 8 cell Kan pack, and the difference in power output for any NiMh battery is greatly influenced by your charging and discharging routine, for example if the batteries are used hot (125*F) off the charger they will provide much, much more power than if they are allowed to cool off (or "rest") before being used, and even though NiMh batteries "dont have a memory" they still perform a lot better if they are dis-charged down to .9v per cell (8 cell pack down to 7.2v) before being re-charged.

thedirt
08-24-2005, 04:41 PM
Ok, Thanks for the info. It was for more or less to get a starting point for pinions.
Thanks again.

thedirt
08-31-2005, 10:03 PM
I'm going to order an AON brushless system soon here and was wondering is AON pretty quick at getting there orders out? And is better to phone or do it over the net?

Thanks

thedirt
09-01-2005, 04:01 AM
The AON brushless is on it's way, just ordered it and should be here i would say in the next 2 weeks? Anyone else order it online? If so, how long did it take to get to your hands?

Thanks for any info, and can hardly wait.

BitHed
09-01-2005, 04:10 AM
...you will love it...just have a bunch of little screws on hand to make sure you get a decent bind on it when you fit it into your motor mount...check to see you are deep enough to hold it but not SO deep the screws hit the internal rotor...

theturd
09-01-2005, 06:39 AM
We have T1815-4900 brushless motors, but we are currently out of stock on Mamba-25 controllers. We expect to ship the Mamba-25 ESC in approximately 14 days. The best we can do for the customers whose order includes Mamba-25 at this time is to waive the S&H until we have them in stock.


Peace,
Steven Chao,
AON Electric

thedirt
09-01-2005, 10:21 PM
Oh really!!! :( Oh well I can most definately wait. Also isn't it the 2415-4900 motor that we use in the H8 and not the 1815-4900??? Im really messed up, i order the 2415-4900+mamba 25 ESC and a sperate 2415-4900 brushless motor? So do I have the wrong motors :confused: I really want to make sure I have the right motors, I heard way too many good things about them. Please help.

akura2
09-02-2005, 02:01 AM
Oh really!!! :( Oh well I can most definately wait. Also isn't it the 2415-4900 motor that we use in the H8 and not the 1815-4900??? Im really messed up, i order the 2415-4900+mamba 25 ESC and a sperate 2415-4900 brushless motor? So do I have the wrong motors :confused: I really want to make sure I have the right motors, I heard way too many good things about them. Please help.


I think that may be a typo..I don't even see an 1815 on the site.. I saw a 2815 which is the larger shaft...

but the 2415-4900 is the one we are mostly using so you got the right one

Unless the 1815 is something new he's introducing....

milknbutter
09-02-2005, 09:15 PM
Bit

A few Q's.

1. What did you use to grind the pinion down?
2. Did you grind the whole side of the pinion or just the little hole area where the shaft sits?

MnB

BitHed
09-03-2005, 07:12 AM
...i just used a file to rub down a little bit...just do enough to let the set screw sit a little flatter against the shaft...have a look at the shaft on the stock motor..Should give you an idea :)

milknbutter
09-03-2005, 08:15 AM
I found a better way. Rather then grind the shaft, grind the side of the pinion a little tiny bit and then just drill the outer areas of where the shaft fits snuggly into the pinion's side. Use a drill bit made for concrete that is slightly larger then the shaft hole. It makes a nice smooth bevel. It allows the pinion to sit nicely and moves the annoying screw away from the gears.

This way you only stuff up a pinion if you go koo koo..suddenly.

MnB

BitHed
09-03-2005, 08:26 AM
...that sounds good...also just make sure you have enough space to allow for different point of contact for different sizes and makes of pinion...Some of them are on top and some are lower, ie nearer the base of the shaft...

milknbutter
09-03-2005, 10:11 PM
Hey guys

I was wondering how many of you are using G-Maxx and Intellect 8 cell 1200mah packs with the AON setup?

Is the perfoormance satisfactory?

MnB

thedirt
09-05-2005, 10:24 PM
AON :D These guys are great. I just ordered mine last week but the Mamba-25 ESC's are backordered and I emailed Steve about some questions and he responded within an hour and a half :eek: . Great service guys :D :D.

mat3833
09-06-2005, 04:57 PM
i have 2 mamba 8000 motors and i am looking to trade for a AON 4900. i can trade 1 for one or both of mine for one. anyone who has one contact me at matt_newbern@yahoo.com.

Matt

thedirt
09-08-2005, 10:57 PM
Hi guys, I ordered my 4900 and mamma 25 ESC and was wondering if you could answer a question for me.

What guage (AWG) of wire should I use on my battery packs that I am making. I am making an 8 cell pack of 2/3 A cells and will use the mini bones from Orion to make them. The wire I am talking about above is the wire from the battery pack to the ESC (they will be connected with a deans connector).

Thanks for any information.

BitHed
09-08-2005, 11:33 PM
...the dirt...I am a religious believer of the wonderful healing powers of 16 gauge...My whole life is 16 gauge :D

TN-H8
09-09-2005, 06:34 PM
I agree on the 16GA. THe Mamba uses 16GA, so I definetly wouldn't use anything smaller.

thedirt
09-11-2005, 04:33 PM
Thanks guys. I am going to get the 16 AWG wire for my batteries. However, I have another problem. Where/ Who makes this stuff? I see lots of 12 AWG and and others but hardly anyone makes 16 AWG.

Any help you would be appreciated.

Ntwadumela
09-12-2005, 01:35 AM
Try here:http://www.hobby-lobby.com/connectors.htm

Near the bottom of the page under the heading: WIRE FOR SLOWFLYERS...

BitHed
09-12-2005, 01:38 AM
...i have always had joy with RCBOYS (boyZ?) on ebay...grab some DEANS wire and ULTRAplugs and you are good to go...reasonable shipping costs and not too slow...Didnt we have deans and wire in the shiop her? I think we do...check it out..

holy_inferno
09-14-2005, 06:42 AM
United RC sells 18 gauge Silicone Wire, the same wire used when they make their battery packs, I think. ;)

FLiPBoY
09-15-2005, 02:47 AM
What pinion brand should we use with the Aon 4900. Also, do we need the aluminum motor mount to get the Aon 4900 to fit or no? Thanks.

BitHed
09-15-2005, 08:44 AM
...For your pinions go with AE 18T pinions or HPI MICRO...Try and get them as HARD as you can because AONS eat unwary pinions for breakfast...

...the AON will fit the stock mount but i advise going alloy...you CAN fit it but piece of mind, safety, flex and minimizing motor shift should be high on your list of things to things if running a 4900 in a stock mount...

thedirt
09-15-2005, 10:35 PM
Whats a good starting point for pinions for this motor?

Thanks

BitHed
09-15-2005, 10:59 PM
...10 to 14t...2mm shaft...AE for 18T or HPI Micro seem to be the family favourites...smaller sizes may require some adjustment to your chassis to get a decent mesh...

EphiDelt490
09-16-2005, 05:11 PM
Where can I get some decent low tooth count pinions? All I can seem to find around here at the LHS are 12T and up... Thanks,

-Adam

mOOsE
09-16-2005, 09:57 PM
HPI makes down to an 8t or 9t

mat3833
09-26-2005, 06:30 PM
i used xray pinions on my 8000 mini t. they go up to 23t and down to 11. i am getting a H8 and have shocks and a batt. i will get bearings. what do i need foe a racer H8? i will be running the mamba5400 until i can get the AON.

Matt

BLACKHAWK444
09-29-2005, 04:58 PM
I just got my AON today! Very pleased with the overall feel and quality. If I am using a Mamba 25 I don't need to use the female connectors included with the motor right? Just the stock mamba connectors and the stock Aon connectors? Thanks.

BitHed
09-29-2005, 10:38 PM
...correct...

thedirt
10-02-2005, 05:17 AM
I put my AON 4900 BL in tonight and wow is it fast, and I am very pleased with it. However, I have mad cogging, probably due to 12 or 14awg to 16awg. Also I am running the stock pinion (as Im waiting for a 12 to come in). When I change the wires on my batteries to 16 awg (same as mamba) and run a 12t pinion will this take it away?

Thanks

WhoMe
10-02-2005, 05:35 AM
Hi, first make sure you Mamba has the latest software update. That usually helps. Second definatly upgrade your wire and try whatever pinions suits you. I tried a 16 with the AON and it worked great. However I did notice when I used my own cobbled together packs I did have a few very short instances of hyper lag..but once my URC 8 cell packs came in..it was all better.

milknbutter
10-03-2005, 02:16 PM
Anyone try the Duratrax micro pinion yet? They come in 9T, 11T and 13T. It is made for 2mm shaft as well.

http://www2.gpmd.com/image/d/dtxc8358.jpg

BLACKHAWK444
10-03-2005, 07:41 PM
I put my AON 4900 BL in tonight and wow is it fast, and I am very pleased with it. However, I have mad cogging, probably due to 12 or 14awg to 16awg. Also I am running the stock pinion (as Im waiting for a 12 to come in). When I change the wires on my batteries to 16 awg (same as mamba) and run a 12t pinion will this take it away?

Thanks

How does the stock pinion fit the AON? I tired it on mine and it is way to big.

thedirt
10-05-2005, 04:33 AM
It works, I dunno, I'll have to check if the hole in the pinion is bigger than 2.0mm.

I must say AON has some great customer service. Thanks AON!!! :D

pawn one
10-07-2005, 05:10 AM
I got the mamba 25 controller and my aon 4900 will be here soon as well I will be running a 8 cell NiMH pack but this is my first brushless system and I need to know what to look out for do's don'ts and how to keep it working good for a long time one thing I am worried about is will the esc heat up does it need a heatsink and do I just mount it with 2 sided tape any where it will fit

thanks

BitHed
10-07-2005, 05:13 AM
...8 cells and an AON and you should be good...if you CAN get a heat sink for the esc put it on...its not TOO neccesary for 8 cells, it IS for 10...YES heat sink the motor...other than that you are good to go ;)

...and my ESC is BESIDE my RX on the rear toplate; the one that goes over the rear drive shaft...right now it is velcroed but you will be fine double taping it too...

RC GUY
10-10-2005, 06:17 PM
...8 cells and an AON and you should be good...if you CAN get a heat sink for the esc put it on...its not TOO neccesary for 8 cells, it IS for 10...YES heat sink the motor...other than that you are good to go ;)

...and my ESC is BESIDE my RX on the rear toplate; the one that goes over the rear drive shaft...right now it is velcroed but you will be fine double taping it too...
hay BitHed do you have a link on the AON4900 thank rc guy

BLACKHAWK444
10-10-2005, 09:58 PM
Not to sound mean, but thats what the search bar is for. Many people have already asked that question in this thread.

holy_inferno
10-11-2005, 05:32 AM
Link on Aon 4900: aonelectric.com (http://aonelectric.com) :)

BitHed
10-11-2005, 06:45 AM
...and there IS a list of links on the FAQ page...

BLACKHAWK444
10-13-2005, 07:47 PM
Question: Can I use the stock mounting screws? Do I just have to be careful not to ram the screws into the inside of the motor? Thanks.

thedirt
10-14-2005, 10:19 PM
No you can't use the stock screws. The motor uses 3mm screws. Im not sure on the length, sorry. Hopefully someone can give the length measurements.

BLACKHAWK444
10-14-2005, 10:26 PM
What screws are supposed to be used?

pimpsmurf
10-25-2005, 12:31 PM
Anyone have a clue what the top-speed would be on a AON with full ball bearings, 12-13 tooth pinion, and 11.1V lipo? How about a unitedrc.com Xtreme 8 cell?

-JNY

pawn one
10-26-2005, 06:59 AM
Thanks a lot guys I am now running my H8 with a traxxas 3 CH reciever from a tmaxx I had it laying around a 1200 8 cell pack a mamba 25 ESC the AON 4900 a JR servo an Associated 10t pinion for indoors or a 14t pinion gear for outdoors and its vary fast about as fast if not faster than my 2WD Mini T with a modified motor and a 9.6v pack (witch is much smaller and lighter) the only thing I ran into is the steering knuckles they are vary poorly mounted I am getting alloy ones soon so it might not matter but when ether the top or bottom screws come free the out drives just fall out so I placed a drop of glue on the threads of those small screws and carefully threaded them into the striped knuckles and let them dry it works until you hit something or roll the car hard if any one has a solution it would be much appreciated once again thanks guys for all the help

BitHed
10-26-2005, 07:15 AM
...I am using COUNTER SUNK SCREWS...The ones angled to sit flush in the countersunk hole ;) OK...we got that sorted...

...You can use 3x6mm screws OR 3x8mm screws and they will fit fine and not harm the guts of the motor...Obviously 8mm will get you more meat to hold onto than a 6mm ;)

...Pawn I am running KYOSHO alloy knuckles and they are pretty much the same problem...i am as perplexed as you are on this one...FIRST we get the drivetrain ALL sorted out and the problem just moves to another part of the car :( Like you i glue / thread lock my nuts but the top 6mm one still has VERY little thread IN the knuckle...Im glad you are running the AON and like it though :)

thedirt
11-05-2005, 04:17 AM
My AON 4900 motor cogs, hardcore. How/ What did you guys figure out to be a cure? If I ease into the throttle it wont cog as easily, but if i punch it, it will cog. It also cogs at any time while im driving. I have a 10t or 11t pinion on it and am planning on getting a 12t like everyone is using. Any tips on how to fix this cogging would be great. Thanks.

BitHed
11-05-2005, 05:32 AM
...hmm...(scratches chin)...batteries arent holding a charge? Wires are too skinny? Feed it lots of power and it SHOULDNT cog...maybe at the limit of your tx/rx range or the end of a pack but not usually...A little perplexing...Are you diffs TOO tight and strangling it? Maybe its underpants are just too tight..

janniz
11-05-2005, 10:52 AM
First of all get thick wires and gold- or deans-connectors and use high discharge-batteries.

Assuming you are using the mamba25-controller, check "starting power" and set it to normal or high - this may help. Also check if your receiver isn't mounted too close to the controller - a friend of mine had interference from the controller which made him think his motor was cogging. His mamba was mounted on top(!) of the rx , after we changed it there was no problems anymore.

Good luck!

mat3833
11-05-2005, 11:02 PM
by gold conestors do you mean the mamba motor style plugs?? i didnt think you could use them on batts.... im intregued.. low resistance, easy removal, light as crap.... hmmmmmm

Matt

pimpsmurf
11-06-2005, 03:06 AM
There are many types of gold connectors. 3.5mm gold connectors (like the mamba has) are rated for 80 amps, which is more than enough. Deans ultra plugs will last a lifetime and handle more than enough current.

You could use 2 female 3.5mm gold plugs for the battery, but you would want to insulated it very very well and probably use some CA and baking soda to connect them. You *really* don't want to make a fire bomb with some batteries.

-JNY

Hawk
11-06-2005, 04:05 AM
If you want gold connnectors AND insulated housing (for your protection) try Astro Flight Zero loss connnectors. The cost about $8 each but are great very low resistance high current capacity for connectors that get used a lot. :cool:

Check this out, they have a new 3 pin connector for brushless motors. http://www.astroflight.com/e/env/0001OpRsEoyceeog1c8B693/store/store-Accessories.html?link=/store/store-type-tem.html&item=products:af-521

janniz
11-06-2005, 10:12 AM
You could use 2 female 3.5mm gold plugs for the battery, but you would want to insulated it very very well
Better use one male, one female on the battery so you can't accidently reverse polarity. To insulate, I use regular shrink-tube and I never had any problems with it. I use 3,5mm gold plugs on most of my cars, just the really small scales like Mini-Z, 1/32 or Epoch are mostly hardwired cause there are no good small connectors. Those silly plastic things the Mini-T or the MRS4 has easily melt.

Gold plugs are the best. ;)

theturd
11-07-2005, 08:36 PM
Repost: Simple Concept: Your power system (battery pack + motor + ESC + wires + connectors + tabs) is as powerful as your weakest link.

As drivers move into the more powerful brushless systems, the need to move higher amount of WATTS is required. In most cases, the voltage stays around 7.2V to 9.6V, that would mean that a minimum of 17-23Amps will need to flow through this power system loop. Note: most of the HPI/JST style connector is capable of only 5-7Amps max.

So here is the question, will all points (act like gateways) be able to handle the sudden or the high amount of current? If not, then cogging the first clue.

mat3833
11-07-2005, 08:52 PM
im going for ease of removal also. my deans are realy annoying to get off. i was thinking of using my mamba conectors and hardwiring the motor to the ESC. is this a good idea? i want to use the male/female idea so i dont make prety sparks and melt the conectors.

Matt

theturd
11-08-2005, 05:03 AM
2 great things about the Ultra Deans;
1. Handles high current.
2. Prevent reversing polarity.

So as long as you can promise the above 2 things religiously, then everything is well. ESC will blow up if you reverse the polarity. There is ZERO tolerance for plority reversal (on the power supply side).

DrVonHoSS
11-08-2005, 06:16 AM
Anyone have a clue what the top-speed would be on a AON with full ball bearings, 12-13 tooth pinion, and 11.1V lipo? How about a unitedrc.com Xtreme 8 cell?

-JNY

I am running an AON4900 with an 11.1v 2100 mAh pack. My top speed guess would be around 50-60mph and it hits this speed in approx. 50 feet! Almost too fast.. at least until I get some ST diffs.

theturd
11-08-2005, 08:59 AM
My daughter poured apple juice all over the table tonight. With that I saw a great example of cogging that we have all experienced...

Think of the power system gateways as the spout of the bottle of water. If the water bottle is turned upside down, then the water will literally come out. However, the water will not come out continuously! The water will pour out in a "Sine" wave pattern or +-+-+- (max, min, max, min, max, min...)pattern. This is litterally the same result due to weakest link (small bottle spout/neck).

In the electrial case, the electrical gateway will allow the max current to go through, but then overload. So it has to reset (BEC), then the flow will go to min (or even zero). The gateway will then reopen, so that the flow will go back to max... This cycle will continue until ESC will id the problem until the user learn to problem solve... generally learn not to pull the trigger so hard and so quickly. So the solutions for my daugher are;

1. Tilt the water bottle at an angle do that air is allowed into the bottle for the displacement problem, then the water will come out at a pace slightly lower than "+" or max pace. The problem is that the air that is displacing the water within the bottle is rushing through the spout (at the exact opposite direction at a certain speed.

2. Increase the spout size so that all the water can be dumped out at the same time... screw the pulsing, screw the even flow... all the water at the same time...

Results:
Pulsing=> generated the least amount of splash on my kitchen floor, because less amount of water spilled during my reaction time... :confused:
Steady stream=> more liquid ended on my floor, but the splash was somewhat contained... and there were still liquid in the bottle. :(
Dump=> What a mess, all the liquid is on the floor! The splatter and liquid are everywhere. The damage/liquid gotten onto everything!!!! :eek: (translation => Can you really handle having all the power unleashed???? There are going to be much wasted energy that will not transfer to the tires and the trans system...)

Take this post for what it is... because it is too freakin late for me :)

BitHed
11-08-2005, 09:55 AM
...nice post Turd...You da man ;)

..ever needed to get ALL the liquid out of a bottle REALLY quickly?

...take off the cap, turn it upside down and then make circles with the bottle, mouth facing down...This will cause a mini-upside down whirlpool in the bottle getting the liquid out EXTREMELY quickly as the air rushes ;)

...Use THAT in your power delivery system Turd and just deliver my sample when its done ;) No need to send the royalty cheque...Just a years worth of AON POWER please :D

pawn one
11-20-2005, 08:03 AM
I heard that the best way to run a brushless system is to not only solder the esc to the motor but to the battery as well it is suppose to reduse power loss and heat how does this work how do you disconnect the battery from the esc the only thing I can think of is a switch or a connector as a plug to complete the circuit I have a mamba 25 and it has a light that wont go off untill it is disconnected from the battery also how do you charge the battery with out hurting the esc if you know please explain it so any one can understand it thanks

pointcrossed
11-20-2005, 12:01 PM
I have a mamba 25 and it has a light that wont go off untill it is disconnected from the battery also how do you charge the battery with out hurting the esc if you know please explain it so any one can understand it thanks

If you put a switch in line with the battery depending on the quality it may increase heat also you are going to have the inconvienience of a large clunky switch in your rig.

Charging your battery with your ESC on is not a good idea and I am not going to explain what may happen but its not good and embarassing.

The best thing to do is to uprade to mini gold bullet connectors (europan kind) they will reduce a significant amount of heat due to higher conductivity which will in turn reduce heat where its not supposed to be, also upgrading the wiring to 14ga silicone will help out alot.

For example, On my 18T I soldered connections from my motor to my mamba esc. Between the ESC and the battery I used gold bullet connectors. If that does not satisfy you you can use a dry connector lubricant but its expensive for the near nonexistent performance it produces with the mini scale vehicles the connectors heat problems went away so I had no problems.

NiMo
11-20-2005, 04:35 PM
I heard that the best way to run a brushless system is to not only solder the esc to the motor but to the battery as well it is suppose to reduse power loss and heat

You have heard correct, and this goes for all forms of Electric racing, which is why you would see those top drivers with a soldering iron to hand.
You must always disconnect the battery from the ESC to charge the battery.

pimpsmurf
11-20-2005, 06:25 PM
You do not have to disconnect the battery to charge it if you use a switch. Simply connect the charger to the battery via separate leads, and break the circuit going to the ESC. =)

-JNY

Trickpatrick
11-20-2005, 06:34 PM
Hi all

I race fairly regular and have been doing this a long time 20 + yrs.

The Mamba was my first cogging experience. I read all the advice,called Castle ect. Used 12 gauge wire soldered everything direct, checked cutoff settings ect, ect.

STILL Cogges. So I cant agree with most of the reasoning I'm hearing here.
Exact same result with Tekin.

I am getting a AON next week I hope.
Cogging and racing just dont cut it. So I am using brushed motors for now.

I hard wire a deans plug into the speed control and peak my soldered in battery just before my race in most of my cars. This works good because you can have the body on and ready to go just unplug the charger when you go to race.
I called Novack and asked about this before I started doing it.
They siad they normaly would discourage this because of maybe hooking up backwards but it is technally fine so I soldered the deans right on the speed control and my charger with batter soldered in car just plug in and charge. BUT I only do this peaking NEVER had a failure. Both Novack and Tekin ESC.

So it does work but you should only do this if you are very comfortable with solder batt. Ect.


Trick

bermbuster
11-20-2005, 08:45 PM
Hey Patrick.....what radio are you using??? I remember reading somewhere that certain Futaba radios dont play nice with mambas.....You mentioned you checked settings....on your radio too???

theturd
11-20-2005, 08:57 PM
...The Mamba was my first cogging experience. I read all the advice,called Castle ect. Used 12 gauge wire soldered everything direct, checked cutoff settings ect, ect.

STILL Cogges. So I cant agree with most of the reasoning I'm hearing here.
Exact same result with Tekin...

Hi Patrick,

First of all, love to have you with an AON motor. So I don't want to discourage you from getting one:) However, you may want to update your Mamba software. Several drivers have had better experience with the newer software. The other may be your choice of pinion (being too much). Double check those 2 things if you are confident that the cogging is not coming from your power system.

Mazda787b
11-22-2005, 12:18 AM
Steve,

Nice to see you around!

Patrick,

What batteries are you using? Your batts and their discharge rates play a big diffierence in how your motor performs. How old is your Mamba ESC? You may want to send it into Castle for a firmware update. Also, set your starting power to a lower setting, and/or learn to roll smoother onto the throttle.

pawn one
11-22-2005, 07:15 AM
I am running a 8 cell nimh and my esc is only a couple months old going by when I got it and I am using one of those red deans plugs it doesn’t get too hot as long as I don’t run it for a long time I have a heat sink on my motor and esc I am just always looking for new ways to reduce heat the cooler the car the longer I can play

janniz
11-22-2005, 09:30 PM
Well I'm afraid to ask:

Also, set your starting power to a lower setting
I allways thought you had to set it to a higher setting if the motor is cogging? I never had any cogging problems so I never tried myself. Mamba manual also says "Increase the value of this setting if your model has difficulty starting smoothly" :confused:

pimpsmurf
11-23-2005, 12:29 AM
Yes, higher starting power was what I understood, but I've yet to have a problem with any setting. Updating the mamba software is the way to go, and the castle link is worth every penny. I can't wait for the new update!

-JNY

Mazda787b
11-25-2005, 07:15 PM
I always set it lower. My understanding was that with lower motor starting power the motor pulled less amps and therefore did not superscede the limitations of the battery.

cable guy
12-07-2005, 10:48 AM
...mine doesnt...ever :D well it does right at the end of a battery...its like an ealy warning system that I am just about out of juice...BTW boots welcome to the boards...

Have been reading post from beginning trying to learn more about brushless. (dont have one) yet. So what is "cog" and what causes it and prevents it??

BitHed
12-07-2005, 11:04 AM
...good questions indeedy ;)

...Cogging is when, for whatever reason, USUALLY not getting enough power, and 'clogs up'...Kinda of like an electric razor having to fight through too many whiskers...Bad example i know...It TRIES to keep turning, but doesnt have the power or the free motion to so and then 'cogs' or gets stuck on its own teeth...As opposed to 'clogs' which are REALLy uncomfortable Dutch shoes :D

...to prevent it you can change to bigger wires for more power flow, change the setting on your motor and esc to provide more power or a torquier start, and make sure you are using quality URC batteries to power your machine ;)

ride1226
12-07-2005, 08:12 PM
when i first got my mamba in the beginning of the summer and got it all hooked up i had cogging issues...my first idea was to try lower gearing...i had no success with this...which u think would help...then i installed my mamba link software and got their latest firmware upgrade it this esc now rocks...never cogs and with the usb link its so fine tunable...iv nvr seen somthin so easy to do...try to upgrade ur firmaware that should take care of any cogging

pimpsmurf
12-07-2005, 10:23 PM
I never had any problems with the Hyperion, but with the Mamba 6800, I think it is pulling more juice. With my United RC x42s, I have problems where you give it full throttle, and it sometimes (1 in 10 times maybe) will go, but very slow. Maybe 10mph or so. If you come off the throttle, and give it the gas again, it goes like a champ (for a 6800). I don't know if could be called cogging (which is a pretty general term in the brushless world), but I'm just going to wait on the hyperion replacement and get the Aon to see how it handles the 8 cell.

-JNY

pimpsmurf
01-14-2006, 01:27 AM
I got my Aon in today. Man this thing is BIG AND HEAVY! Awsome!

I'm going to get some screws at the LHS for the motor mount (3mm countersunk washers w/ countersunk screws, and the screws to mount the motor.), then do a complete rebuild w/ all new plastic (save the gearboxes), and see how she goes. Hopefully a 12 tooth will fit the bill.

I was really amazed at the size of this beast, and that it lacks the "cogging" when you twist the pinion with your fingers on the hyperion. I see why a battery on one side and this on the other is so balanced! haha. Can't wait for a pitbull and 3racing center diff (respective *poke*'s) :D

-JNY

BitHed
01-14-2006, 02:37 AM
...I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall the first time you ran an AON with a PitBull ;) Im glad you like it already...You will love it when it gets in its 'groove' ;)

pimpsmurf
01-14-2006, 02:58 AM
consider it done, because now I finally have my DVC back. ;)

Here is a dumb question... What length 3mm screw should I use with a 3racing motor mount. I swear it's been asked and answered but my searches are fruitless...

-JNY

BitHed
01-14-2006, 03:58 AM
...i use 3x6 for putting the mount ON the chassis and 3x8 to fit the motor TO the mount...Just double up on ALL your 3x6 and 3x8...You can NEVER have enough of them and they will make your bullet-proof in ALL places...

...i have NO stock screws left and the ONLY non-hex one i have left is...umm...there are none :o

pimpsmurf
01-14-2006, 06:24 PM
hrms... How much for a couple hex screw sets?

-JNY

pimpsmurf
02-01-2006, 08:07 PM
I'm just wondering if anyone has talked to Aon Electric about the ceramic ball bearings for the aon motor. I assume that you would have to send it back to have them replaced, but I wonder if one could order an aon with ceramic bearings installed...

-JNY

pimpsmurf
02-04-2006, 07:10 PM
Here goes 3 for 3.

I'm pretty unimpressed with my Aon 4900. I'm not going to make a call on the torque right now because I was using it on wet asphault with Kyosho slicks. I will say that it probably has more torque than the hyperion 6000. Traction was pretty much no where to be found. The tires bowed up huge enough to rip the bead out of one wheel (although I've had trouble before with kyosho's tires.

The dirt track is too wet to slap on the crime fighters and see what she will do, but hopefully it will dry up tomorrow.

As far as top speed:
Aon: 11.1v 2100 mah TP lipo 13.T (Timing highest, start power high)
Hyperion 6000: 9.6v gp1100 URC pack 11.T (timing low, start power high)

The hyperion looks to have slightly more top end than the Aon, however the hyperion can't really handle the timing that the aon can. I want to call the torque slightly in the aon's favor. I'm sure that a 14-15 tooth pinion would make them pretty much even (except for the power plant differences)

I have a 17 tooth pinion coming for the aon, and when it gets here (and I finally recieve CAW's package) I will hopefully get some rightous top speed out of this thing. The mamba definately got hotter with the 11.1v lipo, but the motor didn't get very warm at all. Let us see what the 17 tooth does for me on the 1:8 track. =)

New plastic makes a huge difference. After all the nasty bashing I did to my poor H8 last year, the only thing that was even hurt was 1 3Racing hinge pin. I replaced all the hinge pins, but didn't even bother rebuilding the shocks. I was amazed how little had leaked out. Maybe 6-7 drops was needed to top them off. Great job Kyosho!

I wish you guys could see what we will resort to when you have new stuff waiting for a chassis... I had to strap the tp2100 pack on top of my reciever and down to the servo top plate. Then a cut the crap out of an old kyosho body I have laying around to get it to fit ok.

All in all, it was pretty great, but I did expect a little more top speed out of the aon... Hopefully Monday night I can report back.

I'm thinking about changing to the ST arms and GPM titanium dogbones to use with CAW wheel shafts and some super star wheels with holeshot tires. The whole idea is to use the ST body mounting to mount a Mini-T Baja bug body. I think it would be pretty rad, and those tires would give me silly grip.

Another tiresume tirade from,
-JNY

mat3833
02-04-2006, 07:16 PM
so the AON lacked in the speed department? well looks like i am going to look at the hyperions instead of the AON, if i ever decide to get rid of my mamba.

Matt

pimpsmurf
02-05-2006, 01:23 AM
I mean obviously the Aon is slower on the same voltage, but I thought they would be more evenly matched with the voltage difference.

I did some tinkering and more testing on both motors with my URC 9.6v packs.

The Aon does indeed seem to have more torque. Noticably more. I believe that much more gearing would be required even the score. Perhaps a 16-17 to equal the hyperion 6000. That really says something about the hyperion 5000 (I hope.)

I do love the Aon much more than the Hyperion because my 3Racing heatsinks fit beautifully. Now I have to score some bigger pinions. Aon electric told me this bubba can handle up to *4* cell lipo with a 13 tooth pinion on the H8. GUDE LAWD! That thing would be insane.

-JNY

mat3833
02-05-2006, 01:26 AM
4s....... holy s***!!!!! now i cant even imagine that. think of the speed!! think of the fun!! think of the 1/8 humiliating you could do!! OMG!!

Matt

theturd
02-05-2006, 06:33 AM
Hi Pimpsmurf,

Here are a few things you may want to try if speed is the only thing you are looking for...;
1. Increase voltage (you already done), however you can go to over 16V with that particular motor. The voltage increase will easily improve you RPM while not harming your current draw. The disadvange is the Mamba BEC. It may only allow you to go to 4s in LiPo and it will cost more money.

2. Increase gearing, your notes indicated that your motor is barely warm. It is an excellent sign, but if you want to really crank it put more through the motor. The only way to do that is to increase the load through gearing.

A couple other minor points, one is that you may want to bring the timing to mid, because it is not likely you are transfering all the power through your power system. The higher setting is less efficient in terms of energy use.

Second, from experience, you may want to tuning your power system to that of your track. If you are simply racing it up and down the block, then like a drag racing, (given everything the same) the higher rpm motor will likely do better. If you add incline, distance, weight, curvature, friction, personality, speed off the line, to any driver's formula, then everything changes.

Finally, I don't think you have tapped into your AON motor as of yet. In fact you will find that your setup is drawing very little amount Watts... How you translate that Watts into useful work is something you will need to do... Watts = Voltage x Current (Amp). Note: you already pointed out the first thing... your motor ran cooler, though you may have used the same amount of Watts.

pimpsmurf
02-05-2006, 07:10 AM
Once more, thanks again Steve! =)

Yes, I am waiting on some larger pinions to get here. I am planning on a 17 tooth with the current 3 cell setup. I like to show off at the local 1:8 scale Roar-legal track. It is freaking huge with this little guy, so the top end is needed more than the torque. I just wanted an Aon because the hyperion can overheat on 9.6v if given the chance, and heatsinks are a pain to install. The mamba gets much hotter with the Aon than it did the hyperion.

If I get the pitbull and 17 tooth pinion in by monday, I can hit the dirt track and see how it goes. I fully expect that the Aon is going to show it's colors.

Now I have to get a hyperion 6000 long can. =)

-JNY

pimpsmurf
02-12-2006, 05:01 PM
I put on a 16 tooth pinion last night, and I was pumped! It was much faster than I thought it would be.

3Racing center diff screws are sucking though. I stripped 2, and I wasn't able to tighted it down. It (half) ate a center diff in 100 yards or less. (Don't hate) My LHS probably has flat heads with the 6-sided allen recepticle. Always confused with what to call those.

I'm extremely happy, and the only thing that is going to get hot is my mamba! =)

The one thing that leads me to wonder is about runtime. I think the Aon with a 16.T is probably using more power than the hyperion 6000 with an 11.T only because of the mamba heating up so quickly. This could however be because there was a little play in the 3Racing diff mount. I can't be sure, but I love it anyway! =)

I'm going to go back to the stock diff mount and drill/sink a hole for the dust cover so I can play in the local baseball diamonds.

To be sure, Steve, you have one very happy customer here.

-JNY

leapingbug
02-13-2006, 06:46 AM
I put on a 16 tooth pinion last night, and I was pumped! It was much faster than I thought it would be.
cover so I can play in the local baseball diamonds.

To be sure, Steve, you have one very happy customer here.

-JNY
Now try on this hat 17t 4 cell lipo WOW
just dont let the 4 charge 100% try 80 or so on
(Try that and let me know if the diffs dont explode in 1ms or melt the solder on the mamba25 ill try it lol :p ) THINK ABOUT THO OMG

auto2
02-13-2006, 11:07 AM
I just went from a 12T to a 13T at local indoor SMALL track and noticed a huge difference. 8 minutes of racing and the motor isn't even room temp. My tekin ESC isn't hot either.
Will going higher on the pinion give me more grunt for a 20 foot jump with maybe 10feet of ramp from the little jump before it? I need TIRES!!!!!

theturd
02-13-2006, 07:22 PM
...The one thing that leads me to wonder is about runtime. I think the Aon with a 16.T is probably using more power than the hyperion 6000 with an 11.T only because of the mamba heating up so quickly. This could however be because there was a little play in the 3Racing diff mount. I can't be sure, but I love it anyway! =)...

Pimpsmurf,

Use the same equation: Watts = Voltage x Current to calculate your input. The only problem is that your current is an unknown. The only way to get a reasonable comparison is to run the the exact same mechanical setup over the same surface with an onboard recorder (record voltage & current). Then you have something.....

Remember, you want more power, just not heat. And power can be translated to both torq and rpm. You just need to figure out what is the best method of deliver with minimal loss (to friction, gravity, and any other forces working against you). For me, the biggest is my driving:-)

Peace,
Steven Chao,
AON Electric

BiGRoB21
02-13-2006, 10:49 PM
i was running my half 8 with a 3 cell, aon and a 14t pinion and i am getting speeds of a 8th scale with a midgrade 5 port motor.

pimpsmurf
02-13-2006, 10:58 PM
Steve, another way would be to drive 3 times on my track with my Aon, and 3 times with the hyperion and compare the runtime and performance. The hyperion 6000 is a beast of a motor for such a small can. The heat issue on 8 cells is insane though. I've been scared to hook up my 3 cell lipo yet.

The Aon on a 16T is perfect for me I think.

BTW, I believe that Steve told me that a 13 tooth was the max for a 4 cell lipo. Could you imagine the pain on the drivetrain? =) sweet mercy...

-JNY

theturd
02-13-2006, 11:15 PM
Run time is strict determined by (Battery Capacity) / (average discharge rate) = average run time in hours... So if you drive over the same course in a same manner and same setup then the data will be much more reliable...

Another way is to drive the same manner, but drive till the battery pack is dead. Record the time for both of your tests... Go back and repeat the test 3 times, then take the average... Almost as scientific, because you can take the avg time (in hrs) divided into battery capacity to calculate average current draw for 3...

Some people like to run the battery for X number of laps and then recharge (to identify the amount of engergy used). This can be used, but the data are less reliable, because battery performance is different at the start vs at the middle vs at the end. You are counting on the battery capacity, resistance, temperature, and discharge capabilty to be the same.

Performance is determined by multiple factors. However it is mostly a determinant of the driver:-) One knows what is best for themselves.

theturd
02-13-2006, 11:23 PM
Side note: Battery capacity should be carefully recorded. Don't use the capacity number that is stated. MFG will vary in their measurement.

The simpliest method is to run the battery until the car stops. Then record how much energy is put back into the pack from your charger. Take the average input...

Your will notice that the energy input varies... that may be due to a variety of variables such as humitity, external, internal temperature, and others...

BitHed
02-13-2006, 11:36 PM
...Boys you do the scientific stuff and let me know who wins at the end of the day ;) You lost me as soon as i had to write stuff down LOL...

auto2
02-13-2006, 11:49 PM
well al I know is I'm a happy camper with the 4900. it has more power than I can ever use and runs luke warm all day.
the tekin loves it and 2100 2 cell lipo is perfect. I havn't tried playing with it off the track yet but one thing I know is there is a huge difference between a 12 and 14 T pinion so going up even more should be eye opening.

hrtln
03-07-2006, 08:54 PM
Were is the best (cheepest) place in the US to get one of these motors? I was thinking of trying one.
Thanks...............

Hawk
03-07-2006, 10:27 PM
Were is the best (cheepest) place in the US to get one of these motors? I was thinking of trying one.
Thanks...............
Send me an email. I have an offer for you. :eek:

hrtln
03-08-2006, 06:36 AM
Thanks Hawk. You da man............ ;)

morati
03-10-2006, 02:04 AM
Is there an ETA yet for the new AON motor we've all been looking forward to?