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OneTimeCRX
04-06-2005, 10:47 AM
I just got my Mini Inferno yesterday, I couldn't wait any longer! :)

I was wondering what is the correct setup for the slipper clutch? I've tightened it quite a lot (which was difficult to do even with pliers) but the acceleration still doesn't seem as crisp as I imagine it should be. It's almost like driving a nitro car. Is there a big chance of damage if I set the slipper too tight?

tunnelhead
04-06-2005, 11:44 AM
I am sure you would damage the diffs with a slipper clutch to tight.

OneTimeCRX
04-06-2005, 11:57 AM
Thanks for your reply. I can understand the need for a slipper clutch for off-road surfaces, but for indoors or on-road use, is a slipper really necessary? Electric touring cars don't use slippers right?

It feels like the slipper is reducing the car's performance for the sake of safety, so I'd like to tighten the slipper as much as possible without putting the gears in danger. The question is, how tight can I safely make it?

BitHed
04-06-2005, 12:32 PM
...I know what you mean...I have fixed the grinding clanking sound and now i just whine...lol...

...I have mine set so that you can see 3 (three) threads to the REAR of the big shiny nut...Look down at te car from directly above under a bright light and you should be good...Thats the setting I am running now...there is also a little forward / back slop in the slipper...I might shim it a little next time its apart...A FEW people here have expressed the idea of CAing (superglue) it to close it completely...I can see the idea working but personally will hold off a little longer...

...BTW the 2 x 740 bearings in the mid-diff i will be supplying soon too...

BitHed
04-06-2005, 02:15 PM
...ok...im getting there...at speed I am now quiet..almost stealthy...its dark out so i kept losing it...From a stand still and FULL gas it shouts out this high pitch squeal which is the slipper slipping...slow power ramping up is the best but I end up running out of room to run...Like i discussed with the boys at the LHS today....if you were going to tighten it any MORE it would be faster to CA it...

...This is the option which is growing on me most right now...Just glue it and leave it...

crymynal
04-06-2005, 03:12 PM
On larger scale vehicles I usually tighten the slipper all the way down. Then back it off 1/4 to no more than 1/2 a turn. This will help optimize the slipper. I have also read that if you hold the front tires down and give it full throttle the front wheels should come off the ground anywhere from 1.5-2 inches.

mOOsE
04-06-2005, 06:51 PM
If you hold the rear tires, the fronts should come of the ground with a quick blip of the throttle. This holds true to 1/10 scale but not for micro's. I would either tighten it all the way or to the point where you can't tell its slipping-meaning it would only slip if the wheels were locked and you gave throttle.

OneTimeCRX
04-06-2005, 09:56 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. I've tightened my slipper some more, now to the point where a little more than 4 threads of the shaft are showing. When I hold onto the rear wheels and gun the throttle, the front wheels slip on the floor a little while most of the slipping occurs at the slipper clutch. (This is on a lacquered wooden floor.) It's such a pain to tighten the nut that I'm not going to bother adjusting it anymore for now.

One of these days when I get a stronger motor I'll probably add a friction disc to the slipper clutch.

BitHed
04-06-2005, 10:25 PM
...4 threads and its STILL slipping? OK...i will be the guinea pig on this one fellas..I will CA my slipper...easier for me to get parts than most of you gys so its n big deal...have to do that tonight though...

OneTimeCRX
04-06-2005, 10:36 PM
Maybe it would be better to try something less permanent first? For example you could replace the washer that goes between the two gears with a lock-washer instead. Anyway, let me know what happens!

BitHed
04-07-2005, 01:23 AM
...whats a lock-washer? I want MORE friction right..It needs to be SO tight that it doesnt move unless it gets a good hit but still doesnt interefer with regular accelaeration? The line between the two is going to be SO fine...

...ok...brainstorm...

Double the nuts? Glue the two gears? harder spring? shim it?

...I am still in favor of gluing it...

mpetrich
04-07-2005, 04:39 AM
OK, I need some help here. How in the heck do you tighten the slipper?!?!?!
I pulled the motor out and every time I try to tighten the slipper nut the gears just turn and I can't hold it tight enough my fingers to stop it. Can you pull the entire slipper out all together and then tighten it?!
Thanks.
Matt

BitHed
04-07-2005, 05:27 AM
...you can but i havent done it yet...i just depressed the car to the surface; all the way down, depress the gears and tighten the nut with pliers or another blunt instrument...Just take that baby and show it whos boss :mad:

WhoMe
04-07-2005, 05:59 AM
I took the entire car apart to see how it worked. I took the slipper out and tightened it like that. There seemed to be some sort of binding going on between the idler gear and the diff. Gotta check the teeth.

BitHed
04-07-2005, 06:11 AM
...which one is the idleR? and i thought the whole unit was the diff...OH NO!! Back to noobie land !!! :eek:

OneTimeCRX
04-07-2005, 09:03 AM
Technically an idler gear is a gear that can spin independently of the axle it's mounted on. So in this case I think that WhoMe is referring to the smaller gear on the slipper assembly that meshes with the center diff's crown gear.

OneTimeCRX
04-07-2005, 09:09 AM
Oh, and about a lock-washer - it's a washer that has a slit cut into it and scewered a bit. What this slit does is bite into the surfaces it mates against, which in turn resists any rotation applied to it. It's usually installed in front of a nut, and the locking of it helps keep the nut from loosening and falling off. Difficult to explain, but it's a really simple part! Here is a picture of one:

http://www.nuts-bolts.shoppingcartsplus.com/i/Metric/metric_lock_washer_10.9.JPG

A simple lock washer might not be enough to stop the slipping since so much torque is involved. Perhaps making discs of sand paper would work better?

mpetrich
04-07-2005, 10:47 AM
I took the entire car apart to see how it worked. I took the slipper out and tightened it like that. There seemed to be some sort of binding going on between the idler gear and the diff. Gotta check the teeth.

What is the best way to get the slipper out without breaking anything??!!!
Thanks,
Matt

BitHed
04-08-2005, 12:21 AM
...RURC was saying this morning that he locked one of his slippers...

mpetrich
04-08-2005, 02:41 AM
I bought a 7mm open end wrench and that made it much easier to adjust the slipper.
Thanks,
Matt

hkopium
04-08-2005, 09:52 AM
...you can but i havent done it yet...i just depressed the car to the surface; all the way down, depress the gears and tighten the nut with pliers or another blunt instrument...Just take that baby and show it whos boss :mad:

Bithed... sounds like you are RAPING the H8 :p

RURC
04-08-2005, 06:16 PM
Bit emailed me and asked me to comment on this thred. So here it is...

To lock the slipper I did the same thing I do to my 1/8 scales, to lock...

1 remove the slipper assy.
2 drill 2x 3 mm holes exactly half way out from the center point and in a horizontal plane.
3 Put the 3 mm hardended doweling materal in the freezer for several hours.
4 Put the gears in boiling water for 10 to 20 minutes.
5 Rapidly push the dowels into the gears. Wear gloves the gears will be hot.
6 Trim off excess materal sticking out of holes with Dremel.
7 Reassemble car and I promise you that it will not slip again.

This same size fix is what I use on the 1/8 scale buggies. With 4.6 hp Novorossi motors they do not break. Pleanty of sheer strength.


Also I did add krokas metal cloth as the friction materal on one of my cars also. That one adjusts very nicely now.

On locking the slipper I am waiting for the shafts to break. With the BL setups I am running it is going to happen. I just dont know when.


Basically I just treated it like a smaller version of my 1/8 scale buggies and trucks. I hope this helps out some guys.

OneTimeCRX
04-08-2005, 07:40 PM
The slipper was still bugging me so I decided to take the whole assembly out of the car for a closer look. Upon inspection it became obvious to me some points:

- The adjustment of the slipper feels so tight mostly because of the friction of the nylock nut, not because of the resistance of the spring.

- The washer that goes between the two gears (and is essentially the clutch) is way too smooth and slippery, such that even when the slipper is tightened all the way (so that the spring is fully compressed but nothing past that) the unit still slips too much. And this is with the *stock* motor.

- Adjustment of the slipper is a million times safer and easier to do properly while it's removed from the chassis.

I've finally been able to adjust the slipper so that it works to my liking. What I did was make little notches in the washer that goes between the two gears, so that the washer has a few little bumps on it. Then I fully tightened up the slipper, and reinstalled it into the chassis. Once there, I loosened the slipper a little at a time until I got to a good amount. This ended up being less than 1/4th of a turn of the nut.

With the slipper set like this, the acceleration changes dramatically, even for the stock motor. I can't imagine how much this slipper will hinder the performance of a car with more power.

A final note, if you've increased the power of your car and you're disappointed that the acceleration didn't improve much, try tightening the slipper. Even if the nut feels tight already, chances are that your slipper is still too loose.

WhoMe
04-08-2005, 07:53 PM
Ahhh hah so thats the problem. Thanks for the head up gentlemen. Good thing i didnt put that back together. So basically what they used as a slipper pad...is too slippery.

OneTimeCRX
04-08-2005, 08:37 PM
Yeah the washer feels like it might be chrome-plated; it's that slippery!

WhoMe
04-08-2005, 11:06 PM
Good work I was starting to wonder that myself. Looks like this weekend Ill be running alittle demo of the buggy at my local track. I need to get this thing dialed.

BitHed
04-09-2005, 03:04 AM
...A few days after release a fax came from KYOSHO to ALL dealers...

....Basically it says...

...Please set the slipper from 3.6mm to 4mm, NOT 4mm to 5mm as in the manual...

...On a personal note...mine is cranked ALL the way and STILL slips...I will try the 'Washer Mod' and if that doesnt work i am going to CA it...bugger it...Plug and play baby plug and play...

jatetu
04-09-2005, 11:49 AM
Hello to everybody,

So OneTime, may be is posible that the gears become eroded, and after a while, useless??

best regards
sunny day from Spain :cool: , jatetu

i must progress in my english :o

OneTimeCRX
04-09-2005, 12:29 PM
From what I can understand, the slipper is there to protect the driveline parts from snapping during sudden shocks, not to reduce wear on the gears from normal use. The gears as they are will wear down with normal use, unless you lube them with grease (in which case they wear down much more slowly).

chrille
04-09-2005, 12:34 PM
OTCRX, Your absolutley right about that they are there to protect the driveline from shock, like after a jump or so...but anyway, then i prefer to have a car with more axx, and change the gears a little more often then to have a slow car and dont have to change gears so often. And in the speed the car goes with original/x-speed engine and maybe a .96V pack, i dont think that the drivetrain would be destroyed, but if you mount a mamba or other very fast/strong engine it can be an idea to let the slipper clutch be a little slippery. Just so the drivetrain wount be trashed when you give fullspeed after landing a jump.

jatetu
04-09-2005, 07:06 PM
Well, done the OneTime mod and get much better punch :) :)

Now the motor gets hot, very hot. I have no experience with electrics, is normal to get so hot (the motor sure) ?

BitHed
04-10-2005, 02:43 PM
...The OneTime Mod ROX!! Absolutely brillliant...This is how i did it...I added a few extras but i owe a HUGE shout-out to OneTime...

...Dissassemble the center diff and the slipper...Take out the offending washer...Go around it with a wire cutter making impresssions every couple of millimeters...The more the better...Rough up the surface even more with a file (optional?)

...CA / superglue the washer to the LARGE gear on the motor side...Put the slipper back together...Add you favourite lube to the slipper shaft and bits and the center diff...In this case I used TAMIYA Anti-Wear Grease...Thicker than TAMIYA Titanium grease and MUCH stickier...

...SHIM the MOTOR end of the slipper shaft with some washers...I had some 4mm diameter ones left over from a Mini Z Monster project...I shimmed it 0.2mm and its pretty good...You could even go 0.3 but that might be getting TOO tight...

...Put everyting back together...lots of lube...drive away quietly and with a slipper that works and does what its supposed to :D

OneTimeCRX
04-10-2005, 04:06 PM
Great to hear that the mod works well for you too. But maybe with all the changes you've made, it should be called the BitHed mod! ;)

WhoMe
04-10-2005, 08:47 PM
All i did was rough up that washer and put it back together..Worked wonders.

BitHed
04-10-2005, 09:00 PM
...yup...taking out the washer and beating it up and then putting it back...Thats the OneMake mod :D Sometimes simple is the best option...Great work OneMake...

mpetrich
04-11-2005, 01:14 PM
Thanks for the info. This mod sounds exactly what I need. BUT, how do I get the slipper out of the car? I don't want to break anything!!!
Thanks for the help.
Matt

BitHed
04-11-2005, 01:18 PM
...5 screws on the bottom of the car...the kicker is taking off the LONG torque rod and unscrewing the final pivot ball which holds it all in place...then carefully disconnect the drive dogbones and slide the whole assembly out..you can jiggle her quite a bit with no worries...She enjoys a nice jiggle every now and then :)

...and once again i am going to plug this grease...TAMIYA ANTI-WEAR grease!!! Get it..you will love it and your H8 will love you back...My rear diff has new found confidence, has lost ALL its chatter and the wheels are tracking and OHHH its so good when a plan comes together..Just go to the LHS and get TAMIYA Anti-Wear Grease...This announcement sponsored by your friendly neighbourhood BitHed :D

macmaxx
04-11-2005, 01:40 PM
hi there,

hope you'll understand my bad english :D

what i did with my slipper

- removed part# IH11 158
- took the "slipper-pad" from my old savage (rip) an cut it in 5-6 little pieces so the fit into part IH11 51
- glued the "slipper-pad-pieces" into IH11 56

to avoid running plastic (IH11 50) on slipperpad take a little "metalpaper" (0,1mm thick) and cut it to fit between sliperpad (51) an gear #50.

ok...how does it works ???

very good....you still have to thighten up the slipper but not like before.
i

halfEIGHT
04-11-2005, 06:31 PM
...and once again i am going to plug this grease...TAMIYA ANTI-WEAR grease!!! Get it..you will love it and your H8 will love you back...

BH, got a PN on this so we can get some in? :)

TNB
04-12-2005, 06:17 AM
After a major overall at the LHS tonight, I used some Team Associated Silicone Grease. That excludes the new Mamba Competition X Package, Trinity pinions, Mugen Seiki o rings, and Losi diff gears. However, the Mini-Inferno seems a lot more quiet though I have yet to run it after this latest overall.

BitHed
04-12-2005, 07:10 AM
..the grease will make LOTS of difference i think...My back end is so smooth now it makes off road look like flat carpet...well...you know what i mean...

....Whereas AE for us is expensive being an import TAMIYA is dirt cheap and does the job oh so well...

TNB
04-12-2005, 07:22 AM
I'll take your word on it--your back end that is. ;) I had some Tamiya grease, but I used most all of it on my Tamiya F1. By the way, the 35W oil I used in the shocks simply made the buggy fly over the speed bumps in the parking lot out in front of one of the LHS. However, the one time I was showing off, I flipped it and scraped the fake cooling head. I guess I should have just taken it off, but it does look more like my 1/8th scale buggy now. I also anticipate that since I just installed another 8000kv motor, the Mini-Inferno should run even better since I think I messed up the shaft on the other brushless motor last night when I made a sleeve to use the stock pinion gear (it was dragging in one spot).

BitHed
04-12-2005, 07:29 AM
By the way, the 35W oil I used in the shocks simply made the buggy fly over the speed bumps in the parking lot out in front of one of the LHS.

..TNB is that fly in a good sense or crash to the earth, all on board perished fly? So you mean slightly harder / stiffer will be slightly better? I am still a noob when it comes to suspension setups...harder softer :confused: Rear front :confused:

TNB
04-12-2005, 08:02 AM
It was "fly" as in a good sense.

The speed bumps were about the same size as the buggy and "most" of the time I jumped over them landing on all fours about like they weren't even there. I used the same length shocks and weight oil all the way around, though I did adjust the springs slightly harder in the rear but that is because the rear shocks are the same length as the front shocks I used. When I used the stock springs with the Duratrax oil shocks, the springs wouldn't let the buggy "rock" back and forth as much causing less control so I changed back to the Duratrax springs.

I also have the front shocks mounted in the center outer most holes and the rear shocks mounted in the lower center holes.

BitHed
04-13-2005, 07:22 AM
...boy we are way off topic...

...So hows your slipper clutch..i so prefer it almost locked off...take off speed is REALLLY quick...My H8 is doing what its being TOLD to do now...funky :cool:

TNB
04-13-2005, 04:01 PM
I tightened it some, but it is not locked and I'll probably tighten it some more tonight or tomorrow. However, I do anticipate some slippage with the brushless set up and would rather have some slippage than rip up everything without any replacement parts. I did check out a few Losi and HPI shafts but they weren't a match for the Mini-Inferno.

Last night, the Mini-Inferno seemed to run pretty good once I was able to get the Trinity pinion gear to stay on. I finally ended up grinding a flat spot on the motor shaft and lock tighting the pinion gear screw down. In my opinion, the buggy appears to handle very well at high speeds and jumps very well. I ran in on concrete, asphalt, and gravel. The local dirt track will be a happy medium.

I may also open up the holes I drilled in the body even more tonight and last night after running I lifted the 3-cell lipo so it is not completely flat, hopefully the LiPo will cool down more. The motor has also appeared to cool down some after I opened up the body. My earlier photos don't show the venting, but I drilled numerous holes in the front and rear windows, the front area near the front wheels, and clipped the rear area just in front of the rear wheels.

halfEIGHT
04-13-2005, 06:02 PM
After a major overall at the LHS tonight, I used some Team Associated Silicone Grease. That excludes the new Mamba Competition X Package, Trinity pinions, Mugen Seiki o rings, and Losi diff gears. However, the Mini-Inferno seems a lot more quiet though I have yet to run it after this latest overall.

Cool, we already have that in stock:

http://mini-zracer.com/shop/product.php?pid=487

:)

BitHed
04-18-2005, 07:31 AM
...TNB would you be able to get us a picture of your vents? I have opened up almost the whole back window and covered it with a funky mesh...seems to help...I also opened an are DIRECTLY behind the front wheels but that was the brightest thing to do because i just fill up with crud :( open the windscreen with holes? Sounds like a plan...

OneTimeCRX
04-18-2005, 11:35 AM
For the most effective cooling, a large outlet hole is very important. The inlet hole doesn't have to be very big. The cooling becomes yet more efficient if you put ducting between the inlet and outlet, while avoiding sharp angles or bumps.

It's a little strange, BitHed, that your xspeed is running so hot. Mine doesn't get too hot even after running it for a long time (on 7 NiMH AA's). An aluminium motor mount will definitely help though, and I can't wait until such a part comes out.

BitHed
04-18-2005, 12:22 PM
...Thanks OneTime...Mate we are about 2-3 weeks away from those alloy motor mounts arriving...I will be getting in a LOAD as I am sure the halfeight shop will be too...

...My xspeed gets insanely hot...I am ordering one of those infra-red thermometers just to see HOW hot its getting...It would steam water on contact I am sure...You could actually BBQ on the heat sink...Nasty stuff...Its actually dangerous....

Smoothound
04-18-2005, 12:44 PM
I could do with one of those Ally motor mounts as well I reckon. I temped my Mamba yesterday and it was hitting over 200*F :eek:

TNB
04-18-2005, 04:15 PM
...TNB would you be able to get us a picture of your vents? I have opened up almost the whole back window and covered it with a funky mesh...seems to help...I also opened an are DIRECTLY behind the front wheels but that was the brightest thing to do because i just fill up with crud :( open the windscreen with holes? Sounds like a plan...
I have one larger hole in the windshield and numerous smaller holes on the other side of the windshield. I also drilled holes behind the front tires and in the rear window. The rear window also has a smaller piece cut out. I didn't want to open the rear window too much since that is where the 3-cell lipo sits. I've also elevated the 3-cell lipo slightly in an attempt to get some air to circulate around the battery. I also removed some of the body shell just in front of the rear wheels. And last, I don't drive it with the fake head.

Although I don't own one, I was looking at an alloy heat sink which had a fan mounted on it--although it wouldn't work with my set up, a fan may not be too bad of an idea. I know that there were also some fans on eBay for the Xray M18, so I don't know why something like that couldn't be used on a Mini-Inferno.

Eventually, I may try the 2-cell saddle pack since the 3-cell seems to get hot; consequently, I don't run the Mini-Inferno for as long as I would like to at one time.

http://www2.mini-zracer.com/albums/album623/H8_0.jpg

BitHed
04-18-2005, 04:29 PM
...Thanks mate...Thats what i needed...I was thinking of the SMALL but MANY holes idea too :)

...The fan will fit right beside the motor...Its like a spot was almost made for it...I have to try and pick some up next time I am in the city...I am thinking seperate 9v battery unit servo taped to the chassis...There is enough room for it...

BitHed
04-18-2005, 04:36 PM
I could do with one of those Ally motor mounts as well I reckon. I temped my Mamba yesterday and it was hitting over 200*F :eek:

...I just picked one of these up off the bay...Looks like exactly what i need...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/bithed/tempgun_closecrop404.jpg

...Smoothound what is 200 F in centigrade...Apologies...Im metric :o

TNB
04-18-2005, 05:39 PM
...The fan will fit right beside the motor...Its like a spot was almost made for it...I have to try and pick some up next time I am in the city...I am thinking seperate 9v battery unit servo taped to the chassis...There is enough room for it...
The fan that I saw connected to the receiver unit.

Rcdriver
04-18-2005, 05:48 PM
...Smoothound what is 200 F in centigrade...Apologies...Im metric :o

That would be 93.33333333333334 C. :)

acsubie
04-18-2005, 07:10 PM
The fan that I saw connected to the receiver unit.


thats easy then, just get a plug for the rx then just solder the 2 wires from the fan onto the plug prongs, then you can plug it into the rx instead of soldering it on the motor leads

TNB
04-18-2005, 08:21 PM
thats easy then, just get a plug for the rx then just solder the 2 wires from the fan onto the plug prongs, then you can plug it into the rx instead of soldering it on the motor leads
It already had a plug for the receiver.

acsubie
04-18-2005, 08:51 PM
It already had a plug for the receiver.


thats cool but what i was trying to get at is that its easy to put a plug on :D