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View Full Version : New Brushless ESC designed for half8



Randelstevens
10-30-2005, 01:28 AM
These are the first pix's of a NEW and state of the art Brushless ESC. We have been working with the designers for over 3 months to come up with ESC specifically for the The New Kyosho Half Eight. I will post data as soon as we are allowed to, but it is apprx. 3 times as powerfull as all other reversable brushless ESC currently on the market. I will be able to get you all more information as it becomes 'public'.

BLACKHAWK444
10-30-2005, 02:04 AM
Looks alot like the mamba 25. Any connections?

Randelstevens
10-30-2005, 03:33 AM
Hi Blackhawk,
Yes, it does, but we can guarantee not only are thier absolutely no connections what so ever in design or hardware on board, And for now we are not allowed to say much about this so i must be vague, thier definatally is no connections in the programming of the esc. We are working with the developer to figure out what we can and cant say, It was made very clear to us that we are not to discuss any aspect of programing nor does momba or any other co. We will hopefully soon be able to post spec's. I can say i personally went to thier lab to get an understanding of this product and to run side by side test. Hands down this is best brushless speed control thier is, And it will only get better. I can only say this as a personal opion and i mean do disrespect to momba we have purchased 1000 of dollars in esc and motors from them and have never had a complant and still dont. But the momba cant compete on any level with this esc, and i am not saying any of this to sell this product market it or benifet in any way. The PPl who designed this esc are just BRILLIANT! and know exactly what that are doing and have done it.
I am shure this has not really helped explain why this esc can far out perform the momba, but we have just got our hands on them 2 days ago, and along with receiving them came alot of rules we did not expect.

thanks for emailling, and i trully hope some of you guys can get your hands on one of thies, and post your own reaction!

randel stevens

plain_simple
10-30-2005, 10:59 AM
that surely looks good, i wonder how the software is :rolleyes:

pimpsmurf
10-30-2005, 01:23 PM
yes. looks exactly like a mamba, except for the color of the can on the motor...

Randelstevens
10-30-2005, 06:10 PM
that surely looks good, i wonder how the software is :rolleyes:


take this for what you wont, i have been doing this for over 33 years, i consisder my self to be expert in spelling :eek: i mean RC. This programing of esc is so far over our heads thier never will be a point to try to understand or god forbid try to lean it. Unless you have a Masters from MIT you cant even speack the same language. trust me i was in the lab with them it sounded like english but it wasn't. thies freaking guys speak AREA 51!!! heans one of the reasons we cant get any pieces of the UFO to show you ware thay got the tecnology from.

Tust me i feel your guys, without a doubt i would be right thier with you doubting this. and we walked in to that lab with over 100 years of RC experance and packing our best momba stuff sets and set ups, and confident we had good grip on this brushless and esc thing. I walked out of their feeling like a FOOL!!!! :confused:

pimpsmurf
10-30-2005, 06:33 PM
I'm not saying it is a mamba, just that it looks exactly like my mamba with the exception of the motor case and some of the wires.

I'm been programming computers for 13 years, with specific work in the computer security field. I know ASM, so maybe I would understand a little more than most. Although I am no electronics engineer, I have a basic understanding of circuitry and such.

Regardless, I'll be happy to see that stack up against the new tekin ESC. As long as the tekin has as much configurability and better performance, I'll get one ASAP.

I'm working on moving the Mamba 6800 over to my Mini-Z Monster (24th scale monster truck), which was already a dragster for the most part anyway. :)

Please do keep us informed,
-JNY

plain_simple
10-30-2005, 08:54 PM
Sounds like its worth a try. I already emailed you Randel so please get back me when you can. ;)

Hammer
10-30-2005, 09:11 PM
I'm not saying it is a mamba, just that it looks exactly like my mamba with the exception of the motor case and some of the wires.There’s no way you can see what’s on the PCB from the pics. So it may be the same size as the mamba but that’s as far as the comparison goes at this point.

It’s just great to see new products being developed for this platform! Thanks for the heads up Randel. :D

plain_simple
10-30-2005, 09:17 PM
The looks is not what counts here... has long it works, looking like this one or that one doesnt tells me anything. We never know how ESc are inside a cover if they have one, which isnt this case...
That recalls me of a story: once upon a time (where did i heard that yet?! :rolleyes:) there was a guy that had a Nosram and a LRP top of range ESC's and when he opened both boxes they were quiet similar (no to say the same)!
So... its not so much about the hardware (although of course its important) its more about the software. Look at the war Novak and LRP started on the new 1/10 brushless ESC's.. theres updates on the ESC softwares almost daily!

BitHed
10-31-2005, 05:46 AM
...yup...I am just waiting for mine to be delivered for Bashing and Trashing ;)

Scooter Tekin
10-31-2005, 06:22 PM
he reason for that is that both Nosram and LRP are owend by the same people.

plain_simple
10-31-2005, 07:41 PM
...yup...I am just waiting for mine to be delivered for Bashing and Trashing ;)
Guess we will be running the same ESC then Bit ;) :D


he reason for that is that both Nosram and LRP are owend by the same people.

Yep... i already knew that but he surely learned the hard way coz he had to pay lunch as the result of a bet on they would be exactly the same on the inside :D
P.S.: Are you related to Tekin's or it that just a "i got a tekin too" nick?!

mat3833
10-31-2005, 11:17 PM
let me kno how they are. oh and when will they be for sale? my mamba causes lots of interference.

Matt

Mazda787b
11-04-2005, 04:00 AM
he reason for that is that both Nosram and LRP are owend by the same people.

Exactly. LRP bought Nosram a few years back.

So I am in the dark on this one. Who is making this new brushless system?

plain_simple
11-04-2005, 01:39 PM
Nobody knows and its kind of an ushh ushh thing until its released... which i totaly understand. I guess more updates will follow really soon.

Randelstevens
11-11-2005, 06:50 PM
well Plain_simple its was ushh uush till today, the co. has agreed to sponcered a pro driver out of Spain witch we have nicked named "Achilles". To race in the 1/16 mini inferno open championship series in Spain i belive, on the 25 or 28th of this month. this driver will receive 2 of the only 3 esc currently released buy AREA 51. The details are uncleare as to what info will be releast before, during or after the series. but it will be alot more then we have posted.
For all of you who like to rut for the underdog or strive for extream compitition, put our driver in your thoughts as one man Achilles goes into battle agents greatest brushless sys the world has ever seen The Mamba 25.


God spped Achilles!

randel

pimpsmurf
11-11-2005, 07:46 PM
Dude... that was painful to read.

-JNY

BitHed
11-11-2005, 09:10 PM
...Sounds like an episode of the NeverEnding Story and the X-Files all wrapped into one...Best of luck to you Randel...

...I still think you should have called it the Coffin Nail though ;)

QuickEight
11-12-2005, 01:43 PM
Mr. Randall,

You can definitely count me in on one of these new Brushless ESC systems.

I have an electrical engineering degree as well as a masters in computer science and been working most likely more years than most of you are old so I understand what it takes to do these kind of projects. I have even designed, coded and built a couple of projects that have been to the moon and back so micro circuitry, doing assembly language programming and the such is no mystery to me. Have also done lots of work for the agencies that cannot be mentioned in places like these. :D

Anyway, enough rambling about that sutff. I am very much interested and would be glad to take one of the early production units and give it some good road/dirt/carpet time.

CQ

BitHed
11-12-2005, 02:23 PM
...Great...Thats ALL we need...ANOTHER 'rocket scientist'...lol...QuickEight I would like to nominate the H8 as the platform for the next Mars mission please ;) I think it would go well on the gnarliest off-road course in the galaxy :cool:

k_bojar
11-14-2005, 04:50 PM
I still think it looks like an unbadged Mamba controller....

pointcrossed
11-15-2005, 12:45 PM
Nice ESC It sure does look similar to a mamba...

Isnt it interesting what can happen if you take $2500, schematics and a prototype to Taiwan..... :rolleyes:

Just a thought that popped in my head while reading...

Alot of products are going to look alike and with brushless motor technology there is already a war over who has the best ESC and motors, in the end it all comes down to marketing, so choose wisely... :D

BitHed
11-15-2005, 02:13 PM
...MAMBA is purely 'the most popluar' because it was around first and put the trigger of power into the hands of the children...TheTURD came in H8.com one day and started promoting the AON...It was used, found to be better than the MAMBA and is now a household name...TEKIN i am sure is brilliant stuff but is kind of like the third cousin, purely because the MAMBA is 'the most popular'...I agree with Pointcrossed wholeheartedly but beware the marketing machines...TRUST your LHS and your forums ;)

mat3833
11-15-2005, 06:30 PM
i wouldnt mind giving this esc a test. my mamba is out for the moment and i need somepthing to play with. if it is possible for me to get one i can send my info to you through email.

Matt

pimpsmurf
11-15-2005, 07:07 PM
I'm sure we would all like a pre-production prototype ESC to play with. haha

I'm not going to let the hype, nor tournament results, jade me. It's all about peer-review. So I think we are all a long way away from being able to make an intelligent buy desision on this bugger.

I'm not having trouble with my mamba (yet), and hope I don't need to replace it. I'm not a racer though. Not yet anyway. :)

-JNY

mat3833
11-15-2005, 10:46 PM
lol but i am in need of an ESC at the moment so it would be conveniant.

Matt

BitHed
11-15-2005, 10:52 PM
I'm sure we would all like a pre-production prototype ESC to play with. haha

I'm not going to let the hype, nor tournament results, jade me. It's all about peer-review. So I think we are all a long way away from being able to make an intelligent buy desision on this bugger.

I'm not having trouble with my mamba (yet), and hope I don't need to replace it. I'm not a racer though. Not yet anyway. :)

-JNY

...My sentiments exactly...We ALL want to see what it can do...I have seen the video so i can see its FAST...but i can ramp my MAMBA up to speeds that i cant handle and its not playing up at all so there is no need to replace it yet..

mat3833
11-15-2005, 10:52 PM
video where?? maby it is on the first page... ill look.

Matt

BitHed
11-15-2005, 11:51 PM
...Check Randel's posts over at one18th...He uses their video quite a lot...And when i say videos i mean they are glimpses of something going past...They hum and squeal loudly...i THINK they are cars running this ESC but they are too fast to tell..lol...

plain_simple
11-16-2005, 12:07 PM
Nice ESC It sure does look similar to a mamba...
Isnt it interesting what can happen if you take $2500, schematics and a prototype to Taiwan..... :rolleyes:
Just a thought that popped in my head while reading...
Alot of products are going to look alike and with brushless motor technology there is already a war over who has the best ESC and motors, in the end it all comes down to marketing, so choose wisely... :D

Again we go back to same issue. Sure its easy to order a mountain of ESC for pennies in Taiwan but what about the software?
Building codes for ESC's is a hard task that takes a lot of work and time and so far none of them were able to eliminate cogging. I know what i'm about to say wont sound good on the "options freak" guys hears but...
i rather have an ESC that allows me to take advantage of alll the radio setting possibilities without worrying about parasite effects such as cogging, freezing, ect. then having an ESC like the Tekin one that has all those features that you already have on a Futaba 3PK for instance and some others that you dont even notice any change on the car performance when you set them up on different settings like the Motor Timing for example.
It seems that brands believe that throwing a lot of settings instead of a reliable product will pay and it shouldnt be like that.
The Mamba cogs a all lot, the Tekin also coggs and some how has the came problems as the Mamaba does, only all those features that are included makes the difference marketing wise and for racing... marketing doesnt race or wins races.. good and reliable products do!
If anyones has a ESC that you simply do the inicial setup and the it allows you to setup the throotle on the TX the way you want without cogging at all along the throotle travel i'm on for it! But i dont beleive you willl find it on Taiwan ;)

Hawk
11-16-2005, 03:14 PM
Plain,
Man,you hit the nail right on the head. I agree with you on this esc stuff 100%. Nicely done. :cool:

BitHed
11-16-2005, 11:41 PM
...I agree...Its not ALL about speed but ease of use, availability, duration of the product and in SOME cases looks...If the 'people' agree that ANY new item is 'the one' then it will sell and become popular naturally...

plain_simple
11-17-2005, 01:53 AM
its not just that Bit... what really pisses me off is that most brand marketing wizzards think that they can sell stuff just by adding some features that actually just arent useful unless you're the kind of person that likes to show off how much your ESC is tunable and not even think about if thats really true or if actually works! :rolleyes: It seems that just saying that my ESC has 8 tunable options is more then enough for beeing happy.

pointcrossed
11-17-2005, 02:23 AM
The Mamba cogs a all lot, the Tekin also coggs and some how has the came problems as the Mamaba does, only all those features that are included makes the difference marketing wise and for racing... marketing doesnt race or wins races.. good and reliable products do!
;)

Do you have a Tekin? I read from someone that has one it does not cogg or clog or whatever it does, So, I ordered one.

Marketing does race, because when the winner is displayed, they show what they use in their cars. The whole concept of racing (any publicized racing) especially on a national and world level is all about marketing, RC racers just dont get together in Europe, South Africa or Asia and have a race with magazine reporters posting the details and the winners, just for the racer to say I am a better RC driver than the 2nd place guy this year. The winner says I beat 2nd place thanks to my sponsors blah blah blah corp, they make the best stuff.....

pimpsmurf
11-17-2005, 02:28 AM
its not just that Bit... what really pisses me off is that most brand marketing wizzards think that they can sell stuff just by adding some features that actually just arent useful unless you're the kind of person that likes to show off how much your ESC is tunable and not even think about if thats really true or if actually works! :rolleyes: It seems that just saying that my ESC has 8 tunable options is more then enough for beeing happy.


I am still not sure that the timing advancement on the mamba is doing anything. I am unsure how the timing works with the motor reversed. Is the timing hard-set with configurability via the ESC? I think DrVonHoss's rear-mount chassis is to stop this problem. I wonder what the Hyperion's timing is... All these questions... heh.

-JNY

plain_simple
11-17-2005, 03:24 AM
Do you have a Tekin?

I tested one for 3 days and what i posted before is what i concluded about it.


Marketing does race, because when the winner is displayed, they show what they use in their cars. The whole concept of racing (any publicized racing) especially on a national and world level is all about marketing, RC racers just dont get together in Europe, South Africa or Asia and have a race with magazine reporters posting the details and the winners, just for the racer to say I am a better RC driver than the 2nd place guy this year. The winner says I beat 2nd place thanks to my sponsors blah blah blah corp, they make the best stuff.....

I agree on that but dont forget that what you're saying is marketing taking advantage of racing to find a way to sell a product that most of the times just wins because the driver would win no matter what stuff he's car would have.

Trickpatrick
11-17-2005, 03:36 AM
The Tekin has same problem as the Mamba. Coggs just the same, period.
The motors are the same size and seem to have the same lack of torque problem, I love Tekin stuff but this still, is not the motor for the the 8.

BOTH Tekin and Castle need to come out with a bigger motor for Half 8 size cars. And the sooner they say not to buy the ones they offer now the better because they are losing customers as fast as we put them in our cars.

I know there is alot of advice flying around about wire size and Li-pos fixing this but it doesn't. And it seems too have worked for a few?? Maybe on very open track where you dont have to slow down much I guess.

I have contacted both Tekin and Castle after purchase and they both said ( Not a good fit for the Half8).

Trick

plain_simple
11-17-2005, 04:20 AM
The Tekin has same problem as the Mamba. Coggs just the same, period.
The motors are the same size and seem to have the same lack of torque problem, I love Tekin stuff but this still, is not the motor for the the 8.

So it didnt just happend to me... i guess my testing was right ;)
I dont think its the motor... i would say its the ESC but thats just my guessing :rolleyes:

QuickEight
12-09-2005, 10:47 PM
Well, I agree with the fact that it is all about marketing. I mean, look how well the demon from Redmond, WA has done in convincing the masses running Windoze software that doing the three-finger salute, Ctrl-Alt-Del, about three to five times a day is quite normal. Now that is the power of the almighty dollar hard at work.

Users always want an edge and there are many that believe, because of maketing, that the latest and greatest and newest gizmo or thing-a-ma-jig will give them that one ounce of superiority. And then there is the 'coolness' factor to figure in the equation and having that latest doo-hickie at the next track event will get them oogling points from those less fortunate.

In truth, we would all do much better if we just spent two hours a day practing on a race course with what we have, other than the box-stock H8, which is just a little bit lame from the crate but shines oh so well when we invest just a little more money and time in it.

Anyway, get the product out there to us users and let us be judge. As any of us know who have been in the industry, vaporware is easy to deliver, real tangible items are more difficult. And as it should be, we the users can actually make or break a product if we act together.

Sorry for the soapbox antics.

Hawk
12-09-2005, 11:32 PM
Sorry, I can't pass that last one up.
I have been in software/hardware and the industry since long before PC's were invented. Bill Gates isn't the genius that some would have you believe. He isn't the devil incarnate by the same token.
Windows was built on the same way that DOS was. He was at the right place at the right time. If it didn't work for the public, nobody would buy it anyway. I just don't buy all this whining that if (pick your favorite and place it here) was supported with all the cash that Bill Gates has it would thrash Windows in a heart beat.
The truth is, Windows is weak in many ways. It is not somebody's boutique project and it is not state of the are. It is commercial. It works in most businesses.
There is no monopoly that requires Windows and there are some viable alternatives that people can choose. When consumers vote with their dollars, that is what counts.
Just as in racing, what you do on the track counts, all the bs in the pits is just that, bs.

Just a little observation. :cool:

DrVonHoSS
12-09-2005, 11:56 PM
Man.. you hit the nail on the head!!

These micro cars make me laugh. What the manufactures have actually done is begun to create models of there models. Its brilliant!

Lets face it.. the RC Off Road buggy has been pretty much perfected. Look back to the golden daze of RC when the Tamiya Frog was considered a RC race car. A Half8 will destroy the Frog in every way.. handling, jumping, speed, durability.. the list goes on and on. The RC car has been perfected... no matter what scale. I have an X-Ray M18.. this car handles better than any 1/12 scale car I've ever driven.

The thing that amazes me is the fact that companies like 3Racing and GPM are making all the money. Look at it this way.. You spent $150 on the HALF8. You spent $400 on 3racing and GPM parts, and $150 on a Motor/ESC... who made the most?? The aftermarket companies!! I wonder if Kyosho owns 3Racing. If not.. what idiots!! There are losing so much money!

3Racing and others like it are very smart. They sell direct to individual hobby shops and on the Internet. I don't believe there is a distributor... AKA middle man. That is helping keep the price down.


Speaking of money.. how much do these people in China make per hour? It cant be more than 25 cents an hour. Those machined parts from 3Racing and GPM are awesome machine work and so cheap!

A CNC mill is actually very easy to run. The hard part is setting up the machine. Once you have programmed it.. it does all the work. You could almost have a monkey pressing a "Start/Stop" button.

I'm an Electrician.. but if I could go back in time 10 years.. I would be a machinist (or maybe a pimp.. but thats another story). It just seems like a great skill to have. I have a small mill in my basement. I design my own parts using it. Every once in a while a come up with a "Great" part and take it to my friend who works at a machine shop. It takes him hours to plan out and program.. but once he does.. any idiot could make parts.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you are still young enough to choose.. become the person programming the machine.. not the idiot pressing the button... china has millions of those guys and they work for 25 cents an hour.. think about it.

mat3833
12-10-2005, 12:01 AM
lol i am in an engineering program where we work with autocad and prodesktop. i can design stuff but i dont realy like measuring it.

Matt

BitHed
12-10-2005, 01:05 AM
...ME? Im just another button-pushing monkey ;) Yup we all have things we are good at...If we are lucky we know what they are...

...It IS weird that KYOSHO or any other 'real' RC maker DOESNT have a 'shadow corporation' churning out less-expensive parts like our friends @ 3R et al do...

DrVonHoSS
12-10-2005, 01:08 AM
...ME? Im just another button-pushing monkey ;) Yup we all have things we are good at...If we are lucky we know what they are...

...It IS weird that KYOSHO or any other 'real' RC maker DOESNT have a 'shadow corporation' churning out less-expensive parts like our friends @ 3R et al do...


I dont know.. it could be a case of creating the disease.. then suddenly finding the cure. It would be a little obvious if you ask me. 3Racing and GPM are Kyoho owned! Maybe not.. but its worth thinking about.